Classical Indian rationale please

[Vespasian28]

Just played a Classical Indian vs Early Achaemenid Persian game and as expected the Indian Archers were shot to pieces not only by the Persian Infantry but their light infantry, light horse and cavalry The only thing I dont get is why the Persian foot cost the same as an Indian archer, 6 points. The Persians outshoot the Indians, are up at impact and then its evens for melee, unless I'm doing something completely wrong.

[Robert241167]

Hi there.

I guess this is because Light Spear is free and the Persians get it whilst the Indians don't.

Rob

[grahambriggs]

The Indians are better in some respects. For example, fighting Indian heavy chariots, armoured cavalry with sword or unprotected heavy weapon foot in melee they are better than the Persians. On the whole, the Persians are slightly better value though. Partly, this is because the points system of the rules does not give sufficient fine grain to allow the relative merits of these cheap troops to be proerly represented.

Both troop types will not last long against good quality combat troops.

[philqw78]

Use protected Indians instead of unprotected sword armed. Then they cost the same and shoot the same.

As it is the unprotected ones are better against armoured troops. So there is your rationale.

[bbotus]

Use protected Indians instead of unprotected sword armed. Then they cost the same and shoot the same.

As it is the unprotected ones are better against armoured troops. So there is your rationale.

Except if using a Classical Indian army prior to 1 AD, protected archers without sword is not allowed. I only mention it because we will be fighting Classical Indian vs Early Achaemenid Persian tomorrow night. The sword capability means the Indian archers have to survive the impact and then they will fight the 'other Persian foot' at evens in melee. There are some interesting match-ups. I don't think the Persians have a good answer for the elephants and heavy chariots but their infantry is better, they have more cav, and their overall troop quality is better. Should be fun.

[grahambriggs]

Use protected Indians instead of unprotected sword armed. Then they cost the same and shoot the same.

As it is the unprotected ones are better against armoured troops. So there is your rationale.

Except if using a Classical Indian army prior to 1 AD, protected archers without sword is not allowed. I only mention it because we will be fighting Classical Indian vs Early Achaemenid Persian tomorrow night. The sword capability means the Indian archers have to survive the impact and then they will fight the 'other Persian foot' at evens in melee. There are some interesting match-ups. I don't think the Persians have a good answer for the elephants and heavy chariots but their infantry is better, they have more cav, and their overall troop quality is better. Should be fun.

I would think the Indians would want protected archers with swords in this match up. Those are better than the Persian line troops in melee. The Persians have the same answer to chariots and elephants as they have to everything else: shoot at them.

[philqw78]

I would think the Indians would want protected archers with swords in this match up.

Which they can't have

[grahambriggs]

I would think the Indians would want protected archers with swords in this match up.

Which they can't have

My mistake! They're doomed then

[marty]

minimise the elephants (who will probably die in a hail of arrows) and max out on heavy chariots (the only thing you can get that is likely to break through the Persian foot). I would still rather be the Persians.

Martin

[bbotus]

Is there no hope?

[shadowdragon]

Is there no hope?

Yes, FoG:R.

But, Phil doesn't play Science Fiction.

[bbotus]

Well, the Indians interspersed bows and elephants and the Persians couldn't get more than 3 shots at the elephants and couldn't get 2 hits on them. The Indians then charged in and the elephants won and the Indian bows lost. 2 turns later, both sides had half of their line run away. Persians also obliterated the left flank but lost their right flank. With the Persians 2 points from the army break and the Indians 4 points, the Persians finally shot up an isolated elephant unit from the rear. It routed through a bow unit in front of it and disordering the bows. Then, in the JAP , the elephants routed back through the same unit fragging it. Persian cav then charged the bows but they passed the test to stand. Both sides agreed to call the game due to exhaustion since the Persian cav were now going to be charged in the flank. It was down to whichever side broke a unit first.

We gave the Indians an Inspired Commander and 3 Troop Cmdrs. The Persians had 1 Field C-in-C and 2 Troop sub-generals. I think that balanced the battle a lot. The die rolls were up and down for both sides. Very close game and total break-down of battle lines. Lots of fun.

It is a bit of a go for the Indians but the Persians did't have an answer for the elephants when they failed to shoot them down.

[hazelbark]

Sounds plausible.

[Vespasian28]

Well, the Indians interspersed bows and elephants and the Persians couldn't get more than 3 shots at the elephants and couldn't get 2 hits on them.

Whereas in my game my opponent was getting two hits out of three everytime he shot at the jumbos and scored five hits out of six in impact on one nelly unit. Admittedly my dice were pretty poor throughout which is why it was such a massacre even though I had an IC and three troops too.
Bit unfortunate for the Indians that their main troop type costs the same 6 points as their opponent who can both outshoot and out fight them.

Back to the drawing board as this will be a matchup we will be trying again..... and again ..... and again until the Indians win

[bbotus]

Admittedly my dice were pretty poor throughout which is why it was such a massacre

If the dice aren't even roughly close, then it's hard to win. Bad dice will lose even a very favorable match-up. I know, I've had them right where I wanted them and still lost

[bbotus]

Oh, and I almost forgot to tell you guys. We had one of the great elephant occurrences. A unit of Indian bows pursued an evading cav unit (the cav were being surrounded by multiple Indian BGs and wanted to retire anyway) and got in front of an elephant BG. Two other Persian Cav BGs moved behind and shot the elephants in the rear, they routed away from the arrows toward the Persian board edge and ran right through the bows. Then in the JAP they turned around and ran through the bows again. That was great. A perfectly good unit was fragmented by their own elephants.