King Tiger surrender monkeys

[Slowbius]

I was recently involved in a MP game (Highway Counterattack) playing as the Germans where my King Tiger crew ended up surrendering to a single unit of allied infantry.

Ok it had faced much pummeling from a Priest throughout the course of the encounter but hadn't suffered too badly on the morale front - I was using the 'rally' power-up whenever I had the chance to give it a boost.

However as soon as it trundled past a windmill containing a unit of allied infantry, it came under small arms fire and the crew bailed out with their hands held high. Needless to say they let me down badly and would have been the first against the wall, had I won the encounter

I'm wondering if this behaviour would have been historically accurate, given that sitting inside a King Tiger would probably have been one of the safest places on the map?

[Skipio]

As Slowbius' opponent in this fight - there's some info you (he) might want to take into consideration:

In the turn it surrendered, the KT started the turn at only 70 or 80 morale. (It had been hit by 105mm shells from my Priest all afternoon!) In the last turn, it was then mortared, had shells clang off it from two Sherman fireflies, drove up to a building, had two bundles of TNT dumped on it from above and two more bundles thrown over the hedge beside it.

And if it matters (I'm not sure exactly how complex the morale rules are) it had no allies within about 8 squares and two enemy tanks and three enemy infantry units ringing it fairly closely on three sides.

At that point the crew called "uncle".

Doesn't seem that extreme to me that it should surrender but feel free to chip in your opinions...

[Slowbius]

Admittedly the KT was a little isolated from the rest of my forces. I got a little kill crazy and wanted to keep moving, knowing how easily they break down! Unfortunately I ran into a whole heap of trouble...

Is the distance to the nearest friendly unit factored into the equation when determining chance to rout/surrender?

[Merr]

I looked at the morale rules ... Two cases ;

(1) Dispersed/Bailout
(2) Surrender

In case #1, if the morale of the unit is less than -100.
In case #2, if your morale is less than 0 (and your unit not in heavy fort) and adjacent to an enemy unit, you surrender ... otherwise you retreat.

It appears that Slowbius' KT was case #2 ?

Realistically, I can't tell you anything ... But, a good book to read is "Tigers in the Mud" ;
http://books.google.com/books/about/Tig ... ZZANBqbHMC

There's one engagement where they withdrew (not bailout) because one of their tanks developed a leak in the cooling system and didn't want to be immobilized with the Russian soldiers nearby. The leak (he believed) was the weakness of the Tiger since it (cooling system) was susceptible to small arms fire (mortar, grenades, ATR).

Game-wise ... Perhaps surrendering needs to look at other variables ;
- Closest friendy?
- Escape route?
- Immobilized vehicles (more likely).

In most games, being surrounded (no escape route) generally seems to be the norm when throwing in the towel (except for some units, Waffen SS or Japanese).

Maybe something Pip can add to his long winded "to-do" list.

- Merr

[Skipio]

Yes it was case #2 (as there were units adjacent and there's no way it was at -100)

PS - Immobilization was something we were talking about earlier... that would be nice to see. (EDIT: does that happen already?)

[Merr]

PS - Immobilization was something we were talking about earlier... that would be nice to see. (EDIT: does that happen already?)

No, but it's something I modded with TrackHit!, but I don't remember if I adjusted the morale rules (I think not).

Case #2 (IMO) is a little too harsh and needs tweaking.

Dealing with mobile pillboxes (Tiger/KT) in this game boils down to morale breakage ... We need the ability to turn them into a static pillboxes

- Merr

[Slowbius]

Yup was probably case#2, however it had a clear escape route back down the road it had driven along. It certainly wasn't surrounded.

if your morale is less than 0 (and your unit not in heavy fort) and adjacent to an enemy unit, you surrender

What constitutes an adjacent enemy unit I wonder. For instance would my KT still have surrendered if the adjacent unit comprised a single soldier on low morale who was quaking in his boots?

Thanks for the book link Merr, it looks like a good read.

[Merr]

What constitutes an adjacent enemy unit I wonder. For instance would my KT still have surrendered if the adjacent unit comprised a single soldier on low morale who was quaking in his boots?

Good point !! .... It appears it just looks at the closest enemy unit and not it's status (morale-wise). So, this seems a little ridiculous when both units are broken and the guy in the tank bails because it was his hit turn to get hit .

Thanks for the book link Merr, it looks like a good read.

Another good book ... "Tank" ... This is one battle, but it put's you inside of a Sherman tank ;
http://www.amazon.com/Tank-Ken-Tout/dp/0709055838

In this book, he was constantly reviewing (in his mind) the escape procedures. It seems that any good "whack" on the tank made them instictively bail ... Fear of brewing up drove that instinct I suppose.

- Merr