Grand Strategy -- How Do I Get Back the Original Counters?

cherryfunk · Post by **cherryfunk** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:06 am

I'm impressed by the Grand Strategy Mod, beautiful work indeed that radically overhauls the game in important ways.

However, I'm having a hard time playing with the new counters -- the color schemes are just way too garish for me. Is there a way to restore the original counters? I tried over-writing the /image folder, but that didn't do the trick, and I can't find the actual image files for the counters anywhere. I understand there are new indicators like fortification level added, I just want to get the basic counters (especially their colors) back to the 'vanilla' game. Is this possible?

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:55 am

There are other unit types so you might get problems using the vanilla game counters.

For GS v2.10 there will be large counters, but they have as much color as the current counters. They have more detail, though.

We will not support the original vanilla counters because they didn't follow the norm for NATO counters found in most board game wargames. They were way too bland compared to regular board games counters. So the counters were actually the first we modded.

Technically you can copy vanilla game counters back, but you need to add new ones for mechs, paras, ss, guards, partisans and some minor countries. That is quite a lot of work and you need to know the structure of unit images in GS. It's different from the vanilla game.

cherryfunk · Post by **cherryfunk** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:16 am

I see, I think I've figured it out. In the old game, there were only a few colors for the main factions, and individual nationality was determined solely by the flag identifier. You created separate color schemes for every possible nation, which was a mistake I think -- if you look at Romania for example, the colors clash horribly with the rest of the game. So I would need to replace all those nation counters with the overall faction counters as per the vanilla game, and then create new counters for the new unit types. As you say, quite a job. I could do it but it would take many hours; I might just go back and play vanilla instead. A shame, as you have done great work, but the colors just look so jarring to me they ruin the experience

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:56 am

The color schemes used in GS are similar to what's used with games like World In Flames and most other wargames. Most people like colorful counters so you can easily distinguish the different nations.

I don't agree myself that e. g. Romania clash horribly with other colors. They use blue, yellow and white and that means it's simple to see that these counters belong to Romania. Hungary is green, red and white and so on.

If a lot of players had felt like you then we could have done something, but so far I haven't heard others complaining about counter colors.

Do you have the same problems with board game counters? They're even more colorful than GS counters. Why not use the unit images instead of the counters? They don't have colors and only use emblems to distinguish the countries.

cherryfunk · Post by **cherryfunk** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:12 pm

Stauffenberg, I appreciate you taking the time to reply. It's not the colors per se that bother me, it's how bright/fluorescent they are, which clashes with the more subdued feel of the game. For example, compare the muted vanilla Russian red to the bright lipstick red in GS. One reason I love this game is the elegant look and feel, which includes the map, counters, and UI. (As for the 3D images, I can't play with those in any wargame, they make it everything confusing and jumbled.)

But, last night I tried both Time of Fury and Strategic Command and neither compares to Commander if you ask me -- they don't have the same elegant simplicity and polish.

So if I could, 2 questions for you:

- Is there a less ambitious mod that would improve the game, work with the latest version, but keep the vanilla look? I saw some references to a 'BJR' mod for example, is that still playable?

- If I was going to mod the GS counters, do I just need to replace all the counter images in the /image/unit sub-directories? (i.e. /armour, /battleship etc.) If that's all there is to it, I think it could be done in a few hours by just altering the vanilla images and creating a handful of new counter types. Would anything else need to be done?

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:46 pm

The BJR mod also use the same counters and is no longer available. It was the predecessor to GS.

I find that the Russian counters are rather subdued in color (using brown-red instead of bright red). So they're not glaring in color to me.

Maybe this has something to do with the monitor settings (brightness and contrast)? Or it could be that you prefer colors with less contrast and brightness.

You can mod the colors of the counters in the folder:
...\Grand Strategy mod\image\unit

and the the subfolders for each unit type (like Armou, Garrison etc.).

You need to alter the counters ending with n16.png, n32.png and n64.png. Maybe you can find a setting in e. g. Paintbrush that would halve the intensity of the colors and use that for all counters to quickly change them.

If you look at the AAR here you will see how the large counters look like in GS v2.1. They're less intense because they have color over a bigger area:
viewtopic.php?t=30932

Here you will see that the Romanian counters are less glaring because most of the counter will be dark blue. So if these counters are good for you then you should probably wait for GS v2.1.

The original vanilla counters will not come back because I feel those looked very bland and quite ugly. E. g. I didn't like the images for air and naval units (using bars and dots to distinguish the types). I really disliked the colors too. All counters looked like some variation of green/grey so it was harder to distinguish the different countries. I also felt the counter colors were too close to the terrain colors.

You have a different view and I guess the original designer of the counters felt like you as well. We changed the counters in GS because most wanted more colorful counters and there we are now.

Fortunately GS graphics is easy to mod.

cherryfunk · Post by **cherryfunk** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:30 pm

As you say, I prefer less contrast and brightness -- just personal taste. But wow! the new screenshots from 2.1 you posted look excellent -- much nicer counters, with a ton of useful information (I'm assuming the numbers are dynamic and reflect the unit's actual values?) I think I would happily play with these graphics. Do you have an estimate on when it will be ready?

And I must thank you for sticking with this game engine -- it's a work of art, the best WW2 grand strategy I've played in years, since the fantastic Clash of Steel from SSI back in the old DOS days...

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:18 pm

The numbers on the counters are indeed dynamic. Look here for details (check second message for all numbers shown):
viewtopic.php?t=29623

We have completed the development for GS v2.10 and Slitherine will make the installer when they have time. So we can't say the date exactly, but it shouldn't take long.

cherryfunk · Post by **cherryfunk** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:24 pm

Thanks Stauffenberg, I was ready to give up on this game but now am very excited about the new release -- I think this may well be the best WW2 grand strategy game available for the PC, and I should know as I've played most of them... great work by you and your team, and I hope Slitherine lets you continue to develop this engine and expand it to the Pacific or even a global map

gsmart04 · Post by **gsmart04** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:31 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:The BJR mod also use the same counters and is no longer available. It was the predecessor to GS.

I find that the Russian counters are rather subdued in color (using brown-red instead of bright red). So they're not glaring in color to me.

Maybe this has something to do with the monitor settings (brightness and contrast)? Or it could be that you prefer colors with less contrast and brightness.

You can mod the colors of the counters in the folder:
...\Grand Strategy mod\image\unit

and the the subfolders for each unit type (like Armou, Garrison etc.).

You need to alter the counters ending with n16.png, n32.png and n64.png. Maybe you can find a setting in e. g. Paintbrush that would halve the intensity of the colors and use that for all counters to quickly change them.

If you look at the AAR here you will see how the large counters look like in GS v2.1. They're less intense because they have color over a bigger area:
viewtopic.php?t=30932

Here you will see that the Romanian counters are less glaring because most of the counter will be dark blue. So if these counters are good for you then you should probably wait for GS v2.1.

The original vanilla counters will not come back because I feel those looked very bland and quite ugly. E. g. I didn't like the images for air and naval units (using bars and dots to distinguish the types). I really disliked the colors too. All counters looked like some variation of green/grey so it was harder to distinguish the different countries. I also felt the counter colors were too close to the terrain colors.

You have a different view and I guess the original designer of the counters felt like you as well. We changed the counters in GS because most wanted more colorful counters and there we are now.

Fortunately GS graphics is easy to mod.

I like the new graphics on the counters but I have one more question I haven't been able to get a direct answer to yet and that is: Are the names of rivers and seas going to be a part of 2.1? I certainly hope so both for historical and visual reasons.

And one more question: I assume it won't be possible to continue an ongoing 2.0 game in 2.1?

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:42 am

You will be able to see rivers, lakes, country names and sea areas on the map if you decide to put on river names in the options.

There are many changes between GS v2.1 and GS v2.0 so I recommend starting new games with GSv 2.1, but I think you can play on if you like. You might see some strange behavior, though.

gsmart04 · Post by **gsmart04** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:35 am

Stauffenberg, thanks for the quick reply. I am looking forward to seeing the rivers, etc. names on the map. I'll probably give continuing a game from 2.0 to 2.1 a shot just to see what happens.

colberki · Post by **colberki** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:39 am

I check the forum everyday now for GS v2.1. Just completed my first PBEM game which was really fun! I also think the new colours are bright but it is not a problem. Much more important the GS v2.1 makes a great game better!