DLC 42 #10 Storming Stalingrad

El_Condoro · Post by **El_Condoro** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:57 pm

Storming Stalingrad

nikivdd · Post by **nikivdd** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:15 pm

Storming Stalingrad, General difficulty

This must be a scenario for Deductor.

Actually they got the title completely wrong, it is not Storming Stalingrad but Stalingrad Storming. If there is hell on earth, well this is most likely the place to be.
Personally, this is the hardest single player scenario i ever played. If you want to know how it feels to fight against a wall, try it out.
The two battlegroups have fun in the beginning but not for long. When you enter Stalingrad you have the feeling to be watched all the time, and that is pretty right.
You enter enemy territory which you can't ever claim your own. The further you penetrate, the more surrounded you are, since those nasty buggers (SMG inf) can kick the ass of your tanks goodbye. The luftwaffe could ease the pain somewhat to help you in advancing but it goes extremely slow. Units need be retreated...to where? you are nowhere safe...to reinforce and this tactic does not apply much here. I lost 2 Sherman Tanks, 1 SE PzIVG, 1 StuGIIIB and the captured russian artillery - whose name i forgot. Several units that survived were at the brink of annihilation.
This is the first scenario that gives a feeling of what have i gained...actually nothing. Prestige is down, most units in a terrible condition and that must be a pretty good reflexion of what happened back then. This scenario is a masterpiece. Every DLC is just getting better.

I got the DV that didn't come cheap in 23/24 turns and 4300PP. If i wouldn't have taken some empty flags at the end, prestige would have been even lower.

monkspider · Post by **monkspider** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:23 pm

Storming Stalingrad
starting 10102
After upgrades 9133
Ending prestige 5800
Losses my vintage 1939 recon buggy (tragedy!), a four star Panzer IV G, and four star Wehrmacht infantry
DV on turn 24/24

Hoo boy, here it is. I was getting ready to type "I have now seen Hell, and it's name is Stalingrad" before I even looked at this thread and to my amusement, it looks like Nikki came to a very similar conclusion. What an unbelievably brutal battle. It seemed like enemy resistance was endless. It seemed like the more enemy units I destroyed, the more just kept on coming. My losses were absolutely apaaling, I probably suffered more casualties and spent more on reinforecements than on any other battle ever. After bragging about how long I had kept my recon buggy alive in the previous thread, I must have jinxed myself, because it was destroyed by a strong enemy counterattack in the northeast area of the map.

I was really running out of steam at the end but on the very last turn I captured the last two objectives and held on to them against enemy counter-attacks by the skin of my teeth.

I think this was an excellent simulation of the grinding, block to block warfare of Stalingrad. It was nearly perfect actually. The ONLY thing I would recommend is to change some of the names of the objective hexes to some of the city's key historical locations like the Grain Elevator, the Red October Tractor Factory and Pavlov's House. This would add a lot of flavor to the battle.

But this one really blew me away, bravo sir, bravo.

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:38 pm

From what I could find out, Pavlov's House isn't in this part of Stalingrad. You'll see that location in Stalingrad Docks.

LostAgain · Post by **LostAgain** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:43 pm

I love Storming Stalingrad. I think it is true to events as they transpired for one, and for another, it really challenges you. A lot of tough "just how much do I want to keep this unit decisions" involved. I've played games before that could be fairly predicatable, but every scenario you guys are putting out just keep getting better! I defy anyone to EVER get bored just playing the Storming Stalingrad scenario. I play on Colonel level and my hat is off to anyone that can get through there at a higher level without decimating his arsenal! Kudos to all...gotta go, there are some docks in Stalingrad that I haven't plowed through yet.

monkspider · Post by **monkspider** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:30 am

Thanks for including Pavlov's House! And I actually mixed up some of the names of the famous battle sites in my earlier post, it was actually the Red October Steel Factory, and the Dzerzhinsky tractor factory.

deducter · Post by **deducter** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:42 am

Storming Stalingrad

When I first saw the gazillion flags on the mini-map, my jaw dropped. Clearly these next scenarios will be the centerpiece for DLC 1942, and let’s see whether they live up to the hype. Stalingrad itself is massive, so very massive, so very very massive...

Even after disbanding the Shermans for prestige, I didn’t have enough prestige to overstrength much going in, which is good. This should be an interesting challenge.

Nice to see the Italians with 0 experience, much like the Hungarians and Romanians from the earlier scenarios. This is how it should’ve been in DLC 1941.

Colonel Raiynin was nice. However, sometimes it sucks to be a victim of my own success, for I took him out with losses by Stuka + 2 StuG IIIB + surrender mechanic.

Two groups of Russian units near the Italians, very nice. I found the southern force and killed it, but then was surprised by another group of Russians that took the airfields temporarily.

The IL-2 makes its debut. They are powerful and very tough to shoot down.

I simply cannot believe the number of Soviet troops on this map! This truly is bitter house-to-house fighting, completely unlike the surrender-fest that was Sevastapol. There are not enough units to form a continuous line, and I advanced very cautiously, for I was terrified of Soviet counterattacks. The Soviets certainly didn’t lack for 2.5 star SMG infantry, which often have a very good chance of rugged defense against panzers. Not to mention the artillery, the T-34/43, the various light tanks, the AT guns…

I just cannot express in words the sheer scope and sense of awe that I felt. Prior to Stalingrad, I was blitzing along, destroying Soviet field armies without really trying. And now this, where my advance is slowed to an absolute crawl. I really had to play carefully here to avoid losses, and this scenario is going to be a nightmare on Manstein. You couldn’t have created a better impression of what the 6th Army must have felt like upon entering the city. Insane Russian resistance at every block, on every house, armored counterattacks, artillery, AT guns well-positioned, the AI activates its units if you try to bypass certain sectors, forcing you to more or less clear everything along the way to the objectives. Truly an EPIC scenario.

I was low on prestige for most of the scenario, which is good! Do not change! There are enough flags to capture that you can reinforce your army that way.

The only thing I might change is to add a few KV tanks, since I think I saw a grand total of one, and also to give the Russians a few more fighters to attack with. I believe there were only 2 waves of Russian air units, and my fighters were doing very little for 80% of the scenario.

I know I have been harsh on some of the previous scenarios for what I think is a lack of polish, but then this comes along to blow me away. While this doesn’t mean I don’t think the previous scenarios couldn’t be made slightly harder/more interesting, but this scenario surpassed my ever expectation. This scenario is probably the most well-designed of all the DLCs, and there are still 2 more Stalingrad missions!

Found a KV1-C tank in a rubble hex.

My only fear is that Stalingrad might be so good that the developers will be victims of their own success! How can they possibly top this?

Edit: DV 22/24. The counterattack near the northermost VH took me by surprise, and my KV tank in it survived with 2 str to give me victory. If the Russians took it back, I probably would've only gotten MV.

monkspider · Post by **monkspider** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:21 am

Glad to see this scenario get the Deducter seal of approval! It really is that good!

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:27 am

monkspider wrote:Glad to see this scenario get the Deducter seal of approval! It really is that good!

That makes two of us.

People have been talking about Stalingrad since DLC 1939 (ever since Warsaw people always go "wow if this is X urban battle, i can't wait to see Stalingrad"), I had to give it 100%.

I just cannot express in words the sheer scope and sense of awe that I felt. Prior to Stalingrad, I was blitzing along, destroying Soviet field armies without really trying. And now this, where my advance is slowed to an absolute crawl. I really had to play carefully here to avoid losses, and this scenario is going to be a nightmare on Manstein. You couldn’t have created a better impression of what the 6th Army must have felt like upon entering the city. Insane Russian resistance at every block, on every house, armored counterattacks, artillery, AT guns well-positioned, the AI activates its units if you try to bypass certain sectors, forcing you to more or less clear everything along the way to the objectives. Truly an EPIC scenario.

I was low on prestige for most of the scenario, which is good! Do not change! There are enough flags to capture that you can reinforce your army that way.

This is all by design. Decisions rooted in both game play and history.
Start tough with 2 defensive battles, ease up a bit prior to Sevastopol, then ease up again on the rush towards Stalingrad, then Stalingrad is a huge obstacle. This somewhat reflects the fortunes of the Germany Army in 1942, and also created a friendly game environment. Players get a breather of 'not so tough' scenarios instead of every scenario being tougher and tougher and harder and harder which leaves no room for people who fall behind to catch up in prestige and core strength.

deducter · Post by **deducter** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:54 am

This is all by design. Decisions rooted in both game play and history.
Start tough with 2 defensive battles, ease up a bit prior to Sevastopol, then ease up again on the rush towards Stalingrad, then Stalingrad is a huge obstacle. This somewhat reflects the fortunes of the Germany Army in 1942, and also created a friendly game environment. Players get a breather of 'not so tough' scenarios instead of every scenario being tougher and tougher and harder and harder which leaves no room for people who fall behind to catch up in prestige and core strength.

I can tell that this is the design intention. However, I think that Sevastopol Assault could certainly be harder, since it is advertised as the harder path, whereas I was barely challenged in that scenario, unlike this one, which isn't even optional! Also Voronezh and Novoannisky could stand some buffs, since it's one thing to make them easy, but they are currently too easy. Who enjoys rolling over the AI so easily that the player doesn't even have to try?

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:08 am

That's not the case for everyone though. We have a large player base with a huge range of skills, and we have to do our best to accommodate everyone. Besides, those scenarios you mentioned are hard, at least they are for me on Manstein.

Blathergut wrote:Play without the imported core so there is some feedback about the core that starts with the campaign! It sounds like most here have imported. I'm finding the scenarios tough. The third one is impossible so far. The swarms of Russians wear down the German units and the prestige (not elite) is used up about 8 turns in.

produit · Post by **produit** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:49 pm

I just finished this scenario. I have to agree that it needs clearly a lot of planning to keep my forces alive from the counterattacks.
I had a feeling similar to the streets of Moscow, but with a map bigger and taking more time to finish.
I destroy all units and took every flag, as I still had some turns left. DV on the 21 turn (Field Marshal, but imported code from previous DLC).

It took a lot of artillery (5x 21 cm mortar, 5x Wurfrahmen 40, 1x Su 122) and infantry (5x Gebirgsjäger and 2x Pionere) to dislodge so many infantry enemy units.

As it was already said, enemy air force was rapidly shoot down (6x BF109G) and armored counterattacks were completely ineffective, perhaps as I was blocking most of the access path (clear hexes) with my 13 Panzer IVG.

If I had to restart the map, I will take even more artillery and less armored/air units, as they are not so useful.

Finally, dislodging the last units was really a pain, as taking out a SMG infantry at str 12 and with an entrenchment level of 8 takes really requires a lot of firepower (2 infantry attacks and 3-4 artillery barrages).

Really nice map, but I would not like to play such a map for every scenario...

monkspider · Post by **monkspider** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:25 pm

One more "flavor" suggestion, name one or two of the elite overstrength guards units something like "NKVD Rifle Infantry". The frontline NKVD troops had a reputation for cunning and for being some of the Soviet Union's most crack troops. They were especially skilled at urban warfare and were prominent at the battle of Stalingrad. To some extent, they were something of an analog to the Waffen-SS though they didn't field any armored divisions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NKVD#World ... operations

Longasc · Post by **Longasc** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:21 pm

Will tackle this probably after Christmas.

I SAW THE MAP AND WAS SCARED!!!

Longasc · Post by **Longasc** » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:02 pm

Storming Stalingrad: WIP
Start PP: 3610
-> disbanded Shermans: 4176

Progress report: Noticed a mostly Infantry force in the woods, sent two tanks to dispatch them but they are still there.
I am making slow progress in the city, careful not to move tanks other than the IIIN into city hexes and backing them up with artillery.

A Russian madman named Colonel R.xxxxx attacked my northern force and caused considerable damage till it got surrounded and killed.

My personal astrologer advised me to continue the advance tomorrow, therefore I took a break after this incident which I see as a bad sign of things to come.

kashor73 · Post by **kashor73** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:16 am

Prestige after reinforcement 21,755 (Colonel)

DV turn 22.

4! Pioneers destroyed

I bought extra infantry for this scenario once I saw the map. Initially the progress east was easy, though I had to detach tanks to help out the Italians and free up there troops.

Moving through the city however was a long (but fun slog). The precious 3 star Pioneer infantry I'd built up in 3 years soon found out they didnt have much of an edge against SMG infantry. I used artillery, air, and tank attacks on weakened units, but I couldnt prevent 4 elite units being destroyed.

2 SMG units could pretty much tear up anything not backed up by artillery in the city, and the time constraint meant I couldnt setup every assault with that sort of cover. Italian infantry took heavy losses also, and several tanks escaped with 1 str at various times.

My Panzers clogged up the clear hexes between the blocks, but had to be escorted by artillery to actually dare enter the city hexes.

Colonel (Rainyin?) with his elite T34/43 roughed up a couple of panzer units before finally succumbing.

Very enjoyable scenario, with Stalingrad seeming to go on forever. I'm looking forward over xmas to starting a new campaign ad trying this on a harder level, hats off to those players who do this on Field Marshall without breaking sweat!

Longasc · Post by **Longasc** » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:35 pm

11 turns in, weather is unreliable.

My tank and air power heavy core could use more artillery and infantry.
Russian SMG Infantry is indeed formidable (should stay like that!), an excellent city fighter.
I consider buying some more Grenadiers for the next scenarios as Prestige has dropped to 516!
I am about to take some flag hexes but progress is slow.

No core unit losses, Italian Infantry took the brunt of the attacks but now they are almost gone and my Grenadiers have to fill the front lines.
Panzer IIIN supported by artillery are holding the line, but those tend to get attacked by T-34s. Brrr!

This isn't going to end well. And I am not even in Stalingrad. Ugh. xD

Edit: Bersaglieri, Strength 10 were killed (-10) by a single SMG Infantry. WTF.
(Thinking about it, might have been normal Italian Infantry but still WTF)

Longasc · Post by **Longasc** » Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:38 pm

Storming Stalingrad, DV 24/24 (barely made it)
Start PP: 3610
End PP: 564

I had terrible problems with SMG Infantry and those Sturmoviks are indeed flying tanks!
My core was low on Infantry, though highly experienced in general. I preserved my 6 Infantry units and would like to get more, but I am running very low on Prestige by now and the experience level of my core dropped dramatically due to high losses.

And that's despite trying to play it safe. Sometimes I had to advance tanks into city hexes and could not always provide artillery support. Especially as the number of enemy counter attacks drowned my Sturmpanzers quickly of all ammo. BAD WEATHER also made things worse.

Verdict?
WELL, this time I will definitely NOT say "should be harder".

In fact I am afraid with some 2500 PP I will suffer in the next scenario which looks even harder.
Somehow I captured a KV tank somewhere.

I will try a different strategy in my non-beta playthrough and focus more on objectives and bypass some more defenders. I got distracted, bogged down and suffered losses. I only lost a core tank and lots of aux units, but strength points losses must be replaced, too. And that was damn expensive even with mostly green units.

I should have got some more Infantry units and the StuG IIIF/8 were total shite in this scenario, they were attacked in open terrain by SMG Infantry and suffered losses due to their low soft attack. This is simply not their terrain. They are not nearly as cool as the StuG IIIB, and the city scenarios are bad for them. For the easier open terrain maps they also didn't perform good, as they are vulnerable to Infantry attacks unlike the Panzer IVG. Their extra armor really doesn't help them much and they didn't shine in the anti-tank role so far. In the next map I will not deploy them, they were a colossal waste of Prestige. More IIIN or IVG or artillery would have helped me so much more.

billmv44 · Post by **billmv44** » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:13 pm

This was absolutely brutal (just like the real battle). I lost a SE tank to multiple attacks by the dreaded SMG infantry. Barely eked out a DV on the last turn. The Stalingrad Docks looks as tough or tougher. Even if I take the whole city, is my fate to be encircled anyway? By far the hardest battle. This makes Warsaw and even the Streets of Moscow look easy.

Longasc · Post by **Longasc** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:37 am

billmv44 wrote:This was absolutely brutal (just like the real battle). I lost a SE tank to multiple attacks by the dreaded SMG infantry. Barely eked out a DV on the last turn. The Stalingrad Docks looks as tough or tougher. Even if I take the whole city, is my fate to be encircled anyway? By far the hardest battle. This makes Warsaw and even the Streets of Moscow look easy.

Interestingly Docks seems easier, despite shooting transports on the Volga being much more difficult than expected due to airfield location, spotting issues and them disembarking rather quickly. The enemy airforce is also much better and my BF109G no longer dominate, should have upgraded to Fw190 but where to take the Prestige for that.