They have for me. At least on GC39 and 40.
In PzC most objectives were protected by a ring of enemy units around the city.
My usual organization was to send two groups (group=ART+INF+TK) to conquer the city and move on. Rarely used AA and AT units as core units and only one or two REC throughout the campaign. Had almost as many SB as I had TB, they were very useful to suppress the enemy units around the objectives.
In GC DLCs the objectives seem to be more lightly defended and there are more field battles.
My organization is now based around groups formed by ART+INF+TK+other unit, the other unit can be a REC, a AA (88mm), a TK (captured) and, starting with GC41, a ART (StuG IIIB, lets see how that works).
I find that these four unit groups are more adquate to conquer objectives, that are now less defended, and provide better composition for the more frequent field battles.
My use of SB has really dropped though, only have one acquired for Narvik.
You?
Have the GC DLCs changed the way you play PzC?
Moderators: Slitherine Core, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design
Absolutely. My core has definitely shifted toward armor rather than infantry. Partly because battles in the open are more frequent, partly because my causalty rate for infantry is horrible in the DLC environment, esp 41. I would advance with SP artillery supported tank spearheads in order to survive in the plains of Russia, protecting the "second wave" of infantry and towed artillery to deal with the actual sieges.
The StuG IIIB is awesome, it's less of a siege tool but more of a tank support, really great synergies to be found.
Air superiority is not as granted as in the vanilla campaign early war. I took a liking to the fighter-bombers that could work with the fighters to ensure air dominance then be used as stuka-lite. I definitely shifted focus from SB to stukas too.
That been said, DLC scenarios are very diversified, and you have some leeway with your core/reserve size. Some maps are defense (Piatek or Demyansk for example), some are more "traditional" slogs with a heavy siege component (Warsaw, Novgorod ...), some are blitzkrieg based. Some are open terrain, some are close terrain. You have room to adapt, and many unit types shine at some point. Your captured heavy english/french tanks for example will suffer in some of the larger epic maps of the 41 DLC, but you'll get good mileage from them at Brest Litovsk or Leningrad.
Heck, you even get to play with auxilliary SP AA units or towed AT in some scenarios :p
The StuG IIIB is awesome, it's less of a siege tool but more of a tank support, really great synergies to be found.
Air superiority is not as granted as in the vanilla campaign early war. I took a liking to the fighter-bombers that could work with the fighters to ensure air dominance then be used as stuka-lite. I definitely shifted focus from SB to stukas too.
That been said, DLC scenarios are very diversified, and you have some leeway with your core/reserve size. Some maps are defense (Piatek or Demyansk for example), some are more "traditional" slogs with a heavy siege component (Warsaw, Novgorod ...), some are blitzkrieg based. Some are open terrain, some are close terrain. You have room to adapt, and many unit types shine at some point. Your captured heavy english/french tanks for example will suffer in some of the larger epic maps of the 41 DLC, but you'll get good mileage from them at Brest Litovsk or Leningrad.
Heck, you even get to play with auxilliary SP AA units or towed AT in some scenarios :p
Yes the DLC offer a better challenge and we face a different kind of opposition. Some 1940 scenarios already featured special battles like Wassigny, tank battles like Arras and Reims and in general the groups get larger. It's no longer 1 tank, 1 infantry, 1 artillery and some bomber support to take an objective, I often form tank frontlines backed up by artillery to protect my infantry and have to be more careful with positioning of tanks, there seems to be a lot more restricted terrain.
Nevertheless and despite their weakness early on my Infantry core shrinks while my Tank core grows over the course of the DLC. The other quite obvious thing is how Stukas really dominate. I still have two strategic bombers, but they were indeed more useful in the default PzC campaign.
The other thing is that the larger maps and stronger enemy resistance force people to use recon units, losing them, and buying replacement recon units.
I think the DLC makes us better players, many battles are reminding me of the USA scenarios, you no longer dare to send a lone tank near a city or scouting ahead. That might fly in the default campaign till the USA, but in Russia this is highly dangerous, and also in the 1940 DLC which is still my favorite DLC.
Not only we and the scenario design of the DLC is evolving, the slowly but ever increasing number of core units and units on the battlefield in general make for entirely new Panzer Corps gameplay experiences.
Moscow 41 in the DLC will give us an example of what we can expect in the multi-scenario Stalingrad of 1942, I am looking forward to it!
Nevertheless and despite their weakness early on my Infantry core shrinks while my Tank core grows over the course of the DLC. The other quite obvious thing is how Stukas really dominate. I still have two strategic bombers, but they were indeed more useful in the default PzC campaign.
The other thing is that the larger maps and stronger enemy resistance force people to use recon units, losing them, and buying replacement recon units.
I think the DLC makes us better players, many battles are reminding me of the USA scenarios, you no longer dare to send a lone tank near a city or scouting ahead. That might fly in the default campaign till the USA, but in Russia this is highly dangerous, and also in the 1940 DLC which is still my favorite DLC.
Not only we and the scenario design of the DLC is evolving, the slowly but ever increasing number of core units and units on the battlefield in general make for entirely new Panzer Corps gameplay experiences.
Moscow 41 in the DLC will give us an example of what we can expect in the multi-scenario Stalingrad of 1942, I am looking forward to it!
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Ritterkreuz
- Corporal - Strongpoint
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:20 am
Oh yes!
-Now counterattacks is an issue, so I'm playing more careful.
-Prestige is an issue (at least in Poland), so I form light groups to take unimportant cities without losses for my prestige.
-In PC like in PGF, you needed to stay with your combat-group out of visual range from the defender in the city before you can park a unit adjacent to the defender to prevent the city from producing cheap stuff. This is no longer necessary in the DLCs (excellent!).
The DLCs are really double as fun as the maingame.
-Now counterattacks is an issue, so I'm playing more careful.
-Prestige is an issue (at least in Poland), so I form light groups to take unimportant cities without losses for my prestige.
-In PC like in PGF, you needed to stay with your combat-group out of visual range from the defender in the city before you can park a unit adjacent to the defender to prevent the city from producing cheap stuff. This is no longer necessary in the DLCs (excellent!).
The DLCs are really double as fun as the maingame.
It hasn't yet but I expect it to in the 41 campaign. The core of my core is always a large tank force backed up with large amounts of artillery and fighters. I kept to this model in the first two DLC packs but I do expect to add some more diversity than usual in the coming DLC packs. I am considering adding in 88s and a couple more recon units. Both of these are more helpful in the DLC.
Recon units are particularly good at spotting counterattacks before they are launched and the 88s are really good at dealing with heavy tank units that can give you trouble during the early war period. I do have one strategic bomber because I find an overstrength strategic bomber is still a pretty good unit suppressor. I still don't see much use in AT or AA (other than the 88s).
The big difference in my core force is that the use of self propelled artillery is more useful in the DLC for me. In the main campaign I usually only have 1/6 or 2/6 of my artillery units as self propelled instead of towed because of the ammo difference but in the DLC campaign I have all of my artillery as self-propelled at the moment. Self-propelled really helps reduce casualties from counterattacks and helps you keep your panzers moving fast and the enemy off balance. I will most likely switch this over once the heavier towed units are available just because the towed units later in the game are significantly more powerful than the self-propelled pieces.
For the air force I still find going fighter heavy is important just to reduce losses from strafing and saving you prestige in the long run. I prefer the 110s over Stukas just because they can also take out bombers rather well and finish off fighters that have been reduced to 1,2, or 3 strength. Not as good as Stukas for bombing but overall I think they are a superior choice.
Infantry is still the same for me with a 2 cavalry, 2 paratroopers, 2 pioniers, and 2 Gebirgsjaegers. I like the cavalry because of the spotting and the movement. This is good for scouting and again helpful for guarding flanks against counterattacks. Paratroopers are just tough as nails so that is always good. And of course the pionieres are great for reducing the large number of forts you find in the DLC. Gebirgsjaegers are overall just great even though looking at their stats you might not think so. But in every game I have played the two Gebirgsjaeger units I have had are always the two infantry units with the most kills. My guess is that this is because of their better movement allows them to engage more enemy units in a game?
Recon units are particularly good at spotting counterattacks before they are launched and the 88s are really good at dealing with heavy tank units that can give you trouble during the early war period. I do have one strategic bomber because I find an overstrength strategic bomber is still a pretty good unit suppressor. I still don't see much use in AT or AA (other than the 88s).
The big difference in my core force is that the use of self propelled artillery is more useful in the DLC for me. In the main campaign I usually only have 1/6 or 2/6 of my artillery units as self propelled instead of towed because of the ammo difference but in the DLC campaign I have all of my artillery as self-propelled at the moment. Self-propelled really helps reduce casualties from counterattacks and helps you keep your panzers moving fast and the enemy off balance. I will most likely switch this over once the heavier towed units are available just because the towed units later in the game are significantly more powerful than the self-propelled pieces.
For the air force I still find going fighter heavy is important just to reduce losses from strafing and saving you prestige in the long run. I prefer the 110s over Stukas just because they can also take out bombers rather well and finish off fighters that have been reduced to 1,2, or 3 strength. Not as good as Stukas for bombing but overall I think they are a superior choice.
Infantry is still the same for me with a 2 cavalry, 2 paratroopers, 2 pioniers, and 2 Gebirgsjaegers. I like the cavalry because of the spotting and the movement. This is good for scouting and again helpful for guarding flanks against counterattacks. Paratroopers are just tough as nails so that is always good. And of course the pionieres are great for reducing the large number of forts you find in the DLC. Gebirgsjaegers are overall just great even though looking at their stats you might not think so. But in every game I have played the two Gebirgsjaeger units I have had are always the two infantry units with the most kills. My guess is that this is because of their better movement allows them to engage more enemy units in a game?
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Spechtmeise
- Corporal - Strongpoint
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:48 pm
- Location: Germany
So far 88s have proven themselves as extremely valuable. This for me is the biggest difference so far. I hide them behind infantry or tanks, and when the enemy attacks I fall back, reveal the 88s, and...bang! They are also very useful for destroying fortifications.
Another difference is that losses are going up. I believe I don't have a single unit left over in my core that was commissioned during the '39 DLC.
Another difference is that losses are going up. I believe I don't have a single unit left over in my core that was commissioned during the '39 DLC.
Well, I escort my bomber fleet beyond the initial few turns 
I also play with the expectation that half a dozen T34s will be attacking at any given point. (So, I use flank guards much more often)
I've captured a KV-1B in DLC '41 and its a phenomenal tank at this stage, so Ive built my primary spearhead around it.
Other than that, I play basically the same. I rely heavily on a large airforce, and my ground forces are primarily tanks with only 4 (2 of which are SE) infantry. 4 towed arties and 2 recons.
I also play with the expectation that half a dozen T34s will be attacking at any given point. (So, I use flank guards much more often)
I've captured a KV-1B in DLC '41 and its a phenomenal tank at this stage, so Ive built my primary spearhead around it.
Other than that, I play basically the same. I rely heavily on a large airforce, and my ground forces are primarily tanks with only 4 (2 of which are SE) infantry. 4 towed arties and 2 recons.
I have seen Mountain troops make some pretty amazing attacks. Am starting to suspect that they have some hidden attribute or some sort of weird combination of stats that trick the RNG. They may have been trained by Chuck Norris, too.brettz123 wrote:Gebirgsjaegers are overall just great even though looking at their stats you might not think so.
Just now, a 10-strengh greek mountain troop attacked a 8-strength Pioniere in a city, destroyed 7 and took no casualty.
Yeah the infamous 88's are much more useful in the DLC's then in the stock campaign.Skyraider wrote:So far 88s have proven themselves as extremely valuable. This for me is the biggest difference so far. I hide them behind infantry or tanks, and when the enemy attacks I fall back, reveal the 88s, and...bang! They are also very useful for destroying fortifications.
Another difference is that losses are going up. I believe I don't have a single unit left over in my core that was commissioned during the '39 DLC.
I also really like the fact that enemy air units now show up/attack in waves. No more need for many fighters to quickly get air superiority but you have to keep watching and escort your bombers all the time now. Again this makes the 88 more useful aswell since in their AA role they can also protect your units.
The DLC's are more or less what I always dreamed of having in PG. There were some big campaings (mods) in PG aswell but in many cases the end game became totally unbalanced (in favor of the germans).
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huertgenwald
- 2nd Lieutenant - Panzer IVF/2
- Posts: 696
- Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:39 pm
- Location: Eifel / south of Aachen
Since the enemy air units now come in waves I can now deploy/use the 88's (in their AA role) much better.
In the vanilla campaign it used to be (especially in the earlier maps) that your troops would be on the advance all the time and your AA units would lag behind (to give defensive cover) and by the time they were in position you usually had air superiority already. They were also slow to gain xp in that way.
In their AT role, well there's more defensive scenario's and more counterattacks. Also they shine against fortifications (high hard attack and initiative) of which there are also a whole lot more.
In the standard campaign I did not buy/use a few 88's until Bagration/Overlord.
And if I can't use them offensively/defensively then I use them to capture city hexes
In the vanilla campaign it used to be (especially in the earlier maps) that your troops would be on the advance all the time and your AA units would lag behind (to give defensive cover) and by the time they were in position you usually had air superiority already. They were also slow to gain xp in that way.
In their AT role, well there's more defensive scenario's and more counterattacks. Also they shine against fortifications (high hard attack and initiative) of which there are also a whole lot more.
In the standard campaign I did not buy/use a few 88's until Bagration/Overlord.
And if I can't use them offensively/defensively then I use them to capture city hexes
Absolutely. The primary units of the mainline campaign are Infantry, Towed Artillery, and Strategic Bombers to combat the abundance of heavily defended and entrenched victory hex defenders.
In the DLC, the primary units for me are Tank, Tactical Bomber, and Self Propelled Artillery to combat the abundance of small and large scale counterattacks the AI is especially fond of.
Using recon units in the stock campaign is almost unheard of, but in the DLC, recon will save your valuable core units time and time and time again when you scout and detect AI counterattacks well in advance. Unfortunately recon cars are great at spotting these counterattacks, and they also tend to absorb them. Recon cars die like crazy, and not just in my campaign, but other people's as well! Everyone seems to be okay with it, because cheap recon that spot and absorb enemy counterattacks is a recon car that is doing its job and they're easy to replace. A lot easier than trying to replace an elite infantry or artillery unit that died in transport from an attack you didn't scout out, heh.
The 88 also shines in it's multipurpose (and quite historical) role. It's the only unit with more than 10 hard attack in DLC 39, 40, AND 41, (No other unit can deal significant damage to Char Bs, Matilda IIs, T34/41s, KV1s, and KV2s like the 88 can) plus it has the phenomenal bonus of being able to switch to engage air targets as well. I recommend minimum 1 88, and maybe even more if you really wanted them. If they ever get a +move hero, they become even more extraordinary.
Here's my 88, started it out in Piatek of DLC 1939 and I'm just about wrapping up DLC 1941.
Trashing Allied armor without contest:
Building up an impressive kill count:
My first (and so far only) unit with a triple set of heroes. And check out that kill tracker. 39 tanks and 6 fighters and all those other units? Incredible 88!
In the DLC, the primary units for me are Tank, Tactical Bomber, and Self Propelled Artillery to combat the abundance of small and large scale counterattacks the AI is especially fond of.
Using recon units in the stock campaign is almost unheard of, but in the DLC, recon will save your valuable core units time and time and time again when you scout and detect AI counterattacks well in advance. Unfortunately recon cars are great at spotting these counterattacks, and they also tend to absorb them. Recon cars die like crazy, and not just in my campaign, but other people's as well! Everyone seems to be okay with it, because cheap recon that spot and absorb enemy counterattacks is a recon car that is doing its job and they're easy to replace. A lot easier than trying to replace an elite infantry or artillery unit that died in transport from an attack you didn't scout out, heh.
The 88 also shines in it's multipurpose (and quite historical) role. It's the only unit with more than 10 hard attack in DLC 39, 40, AND 41, (No other unit can deal significant damage to Char Bs, Matilda IIs, T34/41s, KV1s, and KV2s like the 88 can) plus it has the phenomenal bonus of being able to switch to engage air targets as well. I recommend minimum 1 88, and maybe even more if you really wanted them. If they ever get a +move hero, they become even more extraordinary.
Here's my 88, started it out in Piatek of DLC 1939 and I'm just about wrapping up DLC 1941.
Trashing Allied armor without contest:
Building up an impressive kill count:
My first (and so far only) unit with a triple set of heroes. And check out that kill tracker. 39 tanks and 6 fighters and all those other units? Incredible 88!
And that makes it useless to capture cities.DrkCon wrote:The 12.7cm Flak 38. Tho, it cant direct fire
Could be upgraded to 8.8 Flak 41, longer barrel, designed for dual-role, lower silhouette, higher muzzle velocity, higher range...
From Weapons and Fighting Tactics of the Waffen-SS, Dr. S. Hart and DR. R. Hart.
I noticed that as well.
And since I was already editing the equipment file (to decrease the range of the Sturmgeschütz from 3 to 2, comparable to the later range of the Wurfrahmen40), I just made entries for the 8.8 Flak41 as well.
The 10.5 Flak38/39 was tech wise imho in a league with the 8.8 Flak37, with the improved 8.8 Flak41 rivalling the 10.5 Flak38/39 in key areas of performance.
The 12.8 Flak was stationary and I dont see much use of including it in the game.
And since I was already editing the equipment file (to decrease the range of the Sturmgeschütz from 3 to 2, comparable to the later range of the Wurfrahmen40), I just made entries for the 8.8 Flak41 as well.
The 10.5 Flak38/39 was tech wise imho in a league with the 8.8 Flak37, with the improved 8.8 Flak41 rivalling the 10.5 Flak38/39 in key areas of performance.
The 12.8 Flak was stationary and I dont see much use of including it in the game.
longer, alternative "PG" like Campaign new version 0.34 from 2011.08.02 (another bugfix & now in zip format)