AAR Frozen North with Neccromancer

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deducter
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Posts: 1140
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:00 pm

AAR Frozen North with Neccromancer

Post by deducter »

AAR Frozen North with Neccromancer

My opponent is very skilled, we had played before, I am posting an AAR on a recent game we played.

I had originally planned to include some comments on “advanced tactics,” hence one of my earlier annotated screenshot. But the game was engrossing, and I had little time, so I didn’t follow through. I also got sloppier with screenshots later on, but many of the more interesting actions did happen earlier in the game.

I purchased two King Tigers, one in the north sector, one in the middle sector. I assembled another mountaineer unit near Snowdin, for a total of two. Lastly I purchased two Jadgpanzers, many infantry, and some artillery in the form of StuGIV and a Wurfrahmen.

I captured Junction City immediately, and then put all of my forces in a defensive position. At first the Soviet assault came from the south, and my screening infantry/recon car spotted them. It was a massive push of at least 2 SU-100s and 2-T34s, along with infantry and artillery.

The southern front was very thinly held, and I had to rush defenses to the area. Jadgpanthers and their 6 moves are invaluable for this purpose. After two turns, I gathered enough units to counterattack and crush the Soviet forces, forcing them to pull back.

But then, an attack spearheaded by two JS2s assaulted the north, near Snowdin. My King Tiger held them off temporarily, but was forced to retreat to reinforce. Then 2 weakened SU-100s came into the forest/hills south of Snowdin, and I sent my infantry to destroy them. Yet this tactical victory left me open in the north, and Soviet forces simply marched in.

A German counterattack with a King Tiger, two artillery, and an infantry reduced a JS2 to 1 str, but Soviet reinforcements arrived to box in my forces. It seemed I might lose units to the Soviet army, but through skillful maneuver I pinpointed the weakness in the encirclement attempt. Unfortunately I don’t have a tactical map, but in essence I forced a regular to withdraw with artillery and my King Tiger, clearing its ZoC, then I pulled all my forces south of the forest. I thought that the Soviets will wait to bring in infantry before attacking, and I’ve bought myself some time. I believe it is critical to preserve the strength of the German army, since if I lose too many units the Soviets will accrue a massive advantage. Losses are hard to make good for the Germans, even infantry. It’s better to have an elastic defense than try to hold every inch of territory.

Even though it’s 4 to 3 VH, I have inflicted significant casualties on the Soviet forces, and my army in the South prepares to counterattack deep into Soviet territory. Through luck, I have complete naval superiority, and my ships may prove invaluable as artillery support in the southern sector. Since most of the powerful Soviet armor formations are concentrated in the north, I will direct my assault in the south, where all of my mobile units are concentrated and where I have naval support.

To my surprise, the Soviets pressed the assault in the north, moving JS2s into close terrain. I destroyed one with my infantry, but truth be told, once the Soviets start massing their artillery and infantry for another attack, I will be hard-pressed to halt the offensive. One of my infantry is even out of ammo, such is the desperate state of the fighting in the north.

But in the south, my forces continue their push, and the Soviet formations are forced to pull back. Many of their units are low on strength and out of supplies, and I’ve massed up all of my mobile formations in the area. This includes a panther, two panzer IVs, and 3 mobile artillery units (2 StuGIVs, a Wurfrahmen), and 4 infantry. This force should be enough to capture a VH, hopefully.

While I have lost many infantry thus far, my losses in mobile units are light, with no tanks destroyed, while I have devastated Soviet armor formations. Unfortunately for me, the Red Army is almost certainly readying more forces in the backlines, while using cheap infantry to delay my push in the front.

The Soviets continue to push their luck in the north. They appear desperate to encircle and destroy my forces I withdrew from Snowdin. It seems all the remaining Soviet armor is committed to this offensive. I should’ve taken before and after screenshots, but in summary, the Soviet offensive will succeed in taking another Snowy Village and killing two infantry and two mobile artillery, for the cost of a SU-100 and a SU-85, along with the JS2 I killed earlier. I managed to withdraw my King Tiger. Is the price worth it? If the gamble had succeeded in killing my Tiger II, it would definitely be worth it, but I’m not so sure. I’ve killed 4 tanks and 9 antitank units by now, with the lost of just a Jadgpanzer and a Jadgpanther. This was around halfway through the game.

In the South I’ve completely overrun the Soviet positions. They will have time to set up some new defenses near their VH, but unless they have armor reserves that I am unaware of, I should be able to capture another VH, possibly 2, while I hold off in the north for as long as possible. I have two King Tigers, an artillery, and several infantry, yet with mostly infantry, artillery, and the odd armor unit or two the Soviets continue to force me back.

However, The southern assault continues, and there is not much to be done to stop my attacks. The Soviets have an overwhelming advantage in units, while my two King Tigers hold the positions in the center. Desperate Soviet attacks to kill one of them fails. Still, the Soviets mass enough infantry and artillery to force me out of Junction City, despite the loss of most, if not all, of their armor. I capture a southeastern VH and split my forces three ways, one force to try to capture the harbor VH, and a second force to go up to the northeast to keep the Soviets honest, while the last force is sent to reinforce the middle and capture JC.

I was, with reinforcements, eventually able to recapture Junction City, although this took a while even with two King Tigers, artillery support, and reinforcing PzIV, Panther, and Jadgpanther. Then the Soviets started to retreat, for apparently they ran out of armor, and I started to buy panthers, for their mobility. This was around turn 20. I sent my attacks toward Snowdin, but waves of conscript and regulars interdicted my forces. Most hilarious of all was a Panther surrounded on every hex by regulars/conscripts, who attacked en masse with artillery support. They exhausted the ammo of the panther and brought it down to 2 str, despite heavy losses. Yet the Soviets can afford this type of losses without issue.

In the South, I was briefly able to capture the port city VH, but the Soviets had a surprising number of units they built up in the backfield, and pushed me back out, despite my two ships providing artillery support. They snuck a conscript into the southeastern VH I captured earlier, and it was back to 4 to 3. Fortunately I was able to retake it with a PzIV, an infantry, and a StuGIV, then I bought two King Tigers there to make sure I couldn’t lose. I did save up a lot of prestige at this point. Those King Tigers were very helpful in stopping a last ditch attack by 2 SU-100s.

In the north, I managed to approach, and on the last turn, even evict the defender, from Snowdin, while sending a secondary force to tie down Soviet infantry at their northeast VH. I was able to win MV, 4 to 3 VH. The Soviets suffered absolutely absurd losses. Against any other country, this would’ve been a crushing victory halfway through the game, but the Soviets have no issue with losses, and can hold out effectively with their cheap infantry. My opponent was trying a new, very aggressive strategy. Normally he would not put armor on close terrain without some sort of interdiction or artillery support. Very entertaining game.

Turn 6
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Turn 6
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Turn 7
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Turn 12
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Turn 27
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Turn 27
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Kerensky
Content Designer
Content Designer
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:12 am

Post by Kerensky »

As always, a very interesting read. I'm a little surprised neither of you attempted any paratrooper operations. Paratroopers dropping in to take victory hexes is old, tired, and predictable, but there are lots of little snowy villages that make perfect targets to drop in on (they never, EVER have defenders), hold on to, and boom suddenly you can deploy forces behind your opponent's line. Does it make historical sense? Probably not, but it sure is a powerful game mechanic.

Judging by the catastrophic losses of the Soviet anti tank and tanks compared to the Germans, I'm surprised the battle ended at 4 to 3. It really shows how aggressive your opponent was, but in this case it really didn't work out. To me from reading, it sounds like he was trying to kill your units head on instead of neutralize or bypass them.

When I play the Soviets on TFN my main strategy pretty much goes: First turn buy conscripts to max out core size. Send in conscripts along the entire front, from North to South, and probe the German lines.
Hint Hint:
viewtopic.php?t=28490

Where are his heavy armor? Most players like to 'ball up' their forces, so if I find a few non-preplaced units odds are I've found a major concentration of troops and prestige. That's where I do NOT attack, after the conscript scouts have served their purpose, the second wave of guards, su-100s, Is2s, and so on hit the German where they are their weakest. After that, the battle becomes highly fluid. Stalling the large concentrations of German units as cheaply and for as long as possible, while focusing my strength on the German's weakest points.
deducter
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Posts: 1140
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:00 pm

Post by deducter »

As I said, in this game he was trying something new, he played more of the fluid style that you described in the previous games, this was more of his "frontal assault" attempt. He beat me the first time, and the second time was a draw, although technically MV to me, but there were like 4 turns of clear weather and he was stuck on the other side of the river from JC.

I guess the main point with this game is to show how the Soviets can absorb insane losses and still only "barely" lose.

It's interesting people like to ball their units, I hate doing that. I also avoid attacking where they are strongest.

Interesting suggestion about paratroopers, I never thought of their use in that sense, even if it didn't capture anything, if only to tie down some enemy units too.

Edit: He's also currently destroying me in an Urban Warfare game, playing a fluid style. Admittedly it was my first time on the map, and I allocated resources inappropriately. Some of his encirclement maneuvers are truly masterful, and once he break through some of my lines he started to send recon/high maneuver units into my rear. It wasn't long before all of my lines started disintegrating then.
Last edited by deducter on Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kerensky
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:12 am

Post by Kerensky »

deducter wrote:As I said, in this game he was trying something new, he played more of the fluid style that you described in the previous games, this was more of his "frontal assault" attempt. He beat me the first time, and the second time was a draw, although technically MV to me, but there were like 4 turns of clear weather and he was stuck on the other side of the river from JC.

I guess the main point with this game is to show how the Soviets can absorb insane losses and still only "barely" lose.

It's interesting people like to ball their units, I hate doing that. I also avoid attacking where they are strongest.

Interesting suggestion about paratroopers, I never thought of their use in that sense, even if it didn't capture anything, if only to tie down some enemy units too.
It's awesome to see people replaying this maps and finding 'new' strategies to try out. :D
The replay value is immense for high mystery scenarios, although hopefully soon the upcoming balance patch will increase the variety of units deployed, lending the possibility for even more interesting strategies and tactics to appear. StuG IV is getting a major power boost, StuH42 is gonna be the uber conscript/soft target killer... and I've already said too much, but those changes are just the tip of the iceberg. Even the Soviets have some HUGE surprises in store!

And it's true, the Soviet player can much more easily absorb huge losses and still fight on. That sounds very historical to me, and it happens to make for a wonderful game mechanic too.

Well when you ball your units, which is especially common in RTS games, they become much easier to manage and they can also support and protect each other very well. Most people don't like to lose units (which is why we have campaigns where literally thousands of Allied units are destroyed, and only maybe 1 German core unit dies per scenario, but people still gripe and complain about RNG being too random) and balling up is very conductive to the preservation of units. Remember my Soviet Armor pocket you encircled and decimated in our game near Junction City? That's a risk that wouldn't happen if I balled up more. ;)

As for paratroopers, think of it this way. To kill one paratrooper entrenched in a city, you need minimum two units. One unit against one, you will never win. You attack on your turn, he reinforces during his turn. Impossible to win. So every paratrooper requires a minimum of two units to successfully deal with. And odds are, one of those two units is an infantry, and the other is an artillery piece. You're already WAY ahead in terms of tying up 2 core slots with 1 core slot, but now you're also tying up more than double your cost in prestige at the same time.

The alternative is to just ignore the paratrooper. I'll let you think on how that's a good idea. :roll:
Last edited by Kerensky on Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kerensky
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Content Designer
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:12 am

Post by Kerensky »

Urban Warfare is amazing. It was the last MP map I made, and I pretty much went all out putting it together (every single 'building' has a custom string custom, most of the streets have custom names, and of course it's all about high mystery with small starting forces with large prestige and large per turn income). Grabbing all the best features and lessons I learned from making all the other nine maps, and then putting them all together into Urban Warfare.

Battles for the Police Station and the Office building directly to the south of it are always amazing whenever I play UW.

I just finished a game of UW with Turbopun, I plan to make an AAR thread on that for discussion. Be awesome if you share the results of your game there. Or in another thread, either works for me. :D
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