Bagration Devastation

Kriegsheld · Post by **Kriegsheld** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:24 pm

I took the long route to Bagration to build up my core forces as much as possible. This included a deliberate loss in Sea Lion to get to Greece and in Moscow 43 to get to Bagration. I fought 12 scenarios in all. I got to Bagration with 8 very experienced Panthers and Tigers, thanks in part to generous SE awards. I also had 5 very experienced FW190s, six Pioneres, 6 artillery, and some odds and ends. I also had 8360 prestige to spend. First, I rebuilt the core units I was going to use, but only overstrengthened the arty and planes. I used the rest of my prestige to buy 5 King Tigers and 5 Elefants. I lined up the tanks and tank destroyers on my side of the Dnieper River, interspersing my experienced core units with them. It was quite a fun battle-at least for my Germans. No Russian unit ever even made it successfully across the Dnieper. I had plenty of time to move forward after the AI finished throwing stuff at my line. I surrounded the Russian v hex and waited for the scenario to end so I could move on to Lake Balaton. Lake Balaton looks even more insane than Bagration. Now, I have to go on the offensive against hordes of tanks and endless SUs. It should be fun!

So, for those of you looking for revenge in Bagration, that's one way to do it. I think I'll also play it further back, and let the Russians come in and take them on as they charge forward. I think that will be more challenging.

edahl1980 · Post by **edahl1980** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:43 pm

Bagration was nerfed. They replaced IS2 with T-34's......
Besides, it wasnt that hard before.
Ju87G>IS2

Kriegsheld · Post by **Kriegsheld** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:49 pm

Yep, the Ju87G is pretty good against those IS2s, but they aren't nearly as much fun as dueling tanks!

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:57 pm

Stuka G with 14 Hard attack against IS-2 with 22 Air Defense is a 14% kill. Is that 'pretty good'? That seems rather ineffective to me.
I'm guessing your Stuka Gs are elite and overstrength, and possibly have +attack heroes?

Kriegsheld · Post by **Kriegsheld** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:23 am

Kerensky, you are right. An inexperienced Ju87G does not do a lot of damage to an IS2. If someone plans to use them in Bagration, they need to start getting them experience before they get there. As I recall, though, even inexperienced ones do pretty well when the IS2 is on a river hex. I only used one Ju87G in the game I just played, and it was mostly for final blows and river hex attacks.

edahl1980 · Post by **edahl1980** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:54 am

Kerensky wrote:Stuka G with 14 Hard attack against IS-2 with 22 Air Defense is a 14% kill. Is that 'pretty good'? That seems rather ineffective to me.
I'm guessing your Stuka Gs are elite and overstrength, and possibly have +attack heroes?

I buy 3 Stukas in poland, another one in France, and another at Barbarrossa. The best of them are 3 or 4 stars by bagration.
They dont have to kill the IS2, just damage it so its not a strenght 10 attacking my ground units.

Fimconte · Post by **Fimconte** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:15 am

TigerIII wrote: They dont have to kill the IS2, just damage it so its not a strenght 10 attacking my ground units.

I prefer 4 star Strategy Bombers. They do wonders with the IS-2's ammunition count.

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:01 am

So Bagration and Balaton are too easy when you know they are coming, and you've been preparing for them ever since you started out in 1939.... Hmmmm lol

ffl310 · Post by **ffl310** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:10 pm

I buy 3 Stukas in poland, another one in France, and another at Barbarrossa. The best of them are 3 or 4 stars by bagration.
They dont have to kill the IS2, just damage it so its not a strenght 10 attacking my ground units.[/quote]

How many fighters do you have to protect them ? How many planes versus ground units ?

edahl1980 · Post by **edahl1980** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:31 pm

ffl310 wrote:How many fighters do you have to protect them ? How many planes versus ground units ?

5 Fighters, but also a Me410 which assist in killing air units.
And one strategic bomber, that i only use against naval targets.
And my Ground units is 2 recon, 5 tanks, 2 AT's, bunch of infantry and i think it is 5 artillery(1 21cm and rest Wurf)
Oh and 1 flak 88 that goes tank buster when i have air superiority.
Going to do Bagration this second actually as i fucked up Kursk and missed decisive by one turn.

edahl1980 · Post by **edahl1980** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:47 am

Decisive win in turn17.
Lost a couple of PzIV's, one of them a 3 star SS unit. And a Grenadier, so it wasnt flawless.

Can we have the old bagration back?

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:59 am

Have you tried Manstein or the other expanded difficulty levels?

Ritterkreuz · Post by **Ritterkreuz** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:54 pm

Anyone tried Bagration in Scenario-mode (not with your core units from the campaign?).
Close to impossible if tried of General or FM .......................................... if you do it conventionally.

But the old PG1 trick works: Let them come, try to hold at least one objective in the West (producing Elephants), produce and hide some Recons and or Jagddpanthers (because of their speed) in North and South of the Map, and once the pack has passed to the West, most Smolensk and most of the other victory-cities are empty to be occupied by your "Werwolf"-units.

So basically the Russians get the cities in the west and you get the cities in the east. Don't start recapturing too early, make sure you finish the operation in turn 19 or 20 before they turn around their JS-2.