why the russian army will never be weak in gs mod

[soh]

let me tell u why first off in ww2 no russian commander had 100%communication with his army,the axis used radios in their tanks and between air and ground,the russian used flags to communicate so its easy to see how the battle of Battle of Kiev,(600,000 men captured)by axis,but in GS no player would let the value of 600,000 men go up in smoke because the GS player can see a satellite view of the battlefield,in ww2 it was all morse code,letters and short wave radio networks not satellite view of the battlefield,now saying this GS is a very good mod but somehow adding in the ussr having bad communications at the start of operation Barbarossa something like a message saying" by order of stalin no withdrawing from city a,b,c etc"as in men are locked in to some major citys(3 or 4 for each major city) or communication black out for a move or 2 at random in parts of the front line and lost of comm did happen ok

[Peter Stauffenberg]

This is a strategic game with some fog of war. What you write can be applied to almost all wargames. It's very hard to simulate the confusion that took place in the real war. In GS we try to simulate that by the surprise efficiency loss to countries being DoW'ed. That means you can in the Summer and Fall of 1941 just roll over the Russians. They start as far down as red and orange efficiency after the DoW.

If you know what to do then you can cripple the Russians so they're unable to push you back to Berlin in time. Getting all the way to Omsk is difficult, but not impossible against an inferior opponent. Do you really think the real Germans had a chance to get to Siberia?

You can certainly encircle units in GS as well. The good Axis players use the armor to close pockets so you can't rail in and out of the area. Then encircle the front line garrisons so the Axis minor units can clean up the pockets. In order to do this you need to build up a healthy force of armor and mech (I think you need at least 6 of each at the start of Barbarossa) as the Germans. Concentrate these forces and sprint towards Moscow and Rostov. I've played against Axis players who reached my main line near Moscow in August.

If you look at the AAR's from the more experienced players you see that the Axis players manage to get quite far in Russia in 1941 and maybe even further than the real Germans managed.

[metolius]

I'd suggest that the efficiency loss for the Russians should be higher in summer 1941 –– like 50% –– to help model the exceptional combination of confusion and bad strategy that hampered the Russians at that point. That will mean that it takes longer for the Russians to recover, but will leave them with plenty of horsepower in 1942.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

Why is that needed? 30 is hard enough if you play against a pretty skilled Axis player. If you put -50 efficiency then it means most Russian units will be down to 0 efficiency and that means they can easily be wiped out without any German casualties. This means the Germans can safely run at full speed towards Moscow and Rostov without fearing that the spearheads can be hammered.

The efficiency loss is not percentage, but absolute numbers. At the start of Barbarossa the Russians an efficiency about 50. It drops to 20 when Barbarossa begins. That's red efficiency and make the Russians very weak the first turns. You really need to defend far to the east to recover enough before the Germans arrive.

One reason the Russians suffered so much in the Summer and Fall of 1941 was because the Red Army was ordered to defend too far to the west. The Allied GS v2.0 player won't repeat the mistake of Stalin and defend further east. You can order the players to play foolishly.

[gerones]

People use to forget how the germans were heavily outnumbered by the soviets in late war (1944-45). It is a known fact that the Red Army deployed an impresionant number of tanks, self-propelled guns and artillery guns in its last campaigns in Poland and Eastern Germany. The game reflect this well so, in normal conditions, the allied player by late game uses to command a huge soviet army.

[Plaid]

Its funny, that its always soviets, who discussed in this context. Many other nations had much worse armies - both in terms of weaponry and organisation/communication but we never see topics like "why polish DoW penalty is only 10".

[metolius]

It's a fair point. Honestly, no minor power put up a serious fight in their initial conflicts with the Germans. They were all overrun, quickly.

[Diplomaticus]

It's a fair point. Honestly, no minor power put up a serious fight in their initial conflicts with the Germans. They were all overrun, quickly.

You said it, brother!

Every time I invade the Netherlands it just kills me. I *know* the Wehrmacht ran through Holland in just 5 days, but in CEAW it's not at all unusual for it to take 2 turns to capture The Hague--the equivalent of 40 days! Wtfuwt?

By contrast, the GS 2.0 Denmark feels about right. As long as you've got fair weather, it just takes a single Korps with a bit of air/sea support, which is about historically right.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

This is not a problem in GS v2.1. The Dutch corps unit has strength 5 and the garrisons strength 3 if you attack during a fair weather turn and Belgium wasn't attacked in a prior turn. The Belgian corps unit has a strength of 7 and garrisons strength 5 except the Liege fortress which has a strength of 10 if you attack during a fair weather turn and Holland wasn't attacked in a prior turn.

Norwegian garrisons are of strength 2 if attacked during a fair weather turn and Denmark wasn't invaded on a prior turn. The same for Danish garrisons.

The above rule simulates that these minor powers weren't able to mobilize their forces when attacked during a fair weather turn and the neighbour country wasn't attacked before so they got a warning of the upcoming invasion.

[Cybvep]

Its funny, that its always soviets, who discussed in this context. Many other nations had much worse armies - both in terms of weaponry and organisation/communication but we never see topics like "why polish DoW penalty is only 10".

Poles resisted for about a month while being at a 2:1 disadvantage in raw number of men (I won't even mention the disparity between the number of vehicles and air-planes on both sides) and on 17th of September they were also attacked by the Soviets. In comparison, France fell in a month and a half while having force parity with the Germans (and actually better tanks!) and fighting on a rather narrow front in the Low Countries and northern France. Also, the Polish campaign is more or less historical in most games, i.e. Poland falls in two or at most three turns and even then it's plausible, while the French campaign usually takes much longer than IRL and there are no encirclements. Also, while the casualty ratio in the Polish campaign is very reasonable and quite historical, the casualties suffered by both sides in France are usually much, much greater than IRL. I would say that there are more problems with Fall Gelb than with Fall Weiss.

[rkr1958]

IRL

I don't mean to be dense but what does "IRL" stand for?

[Samhain]

In real life. De jure it means not on the internet, even though the internet is real. Then again the meaning of every word seems to be butchered at one point or another.

[rkr1958]

In real life. De jure it means not on the internet, even though the internet is real. Then again the meaning of every word seems to be butchered at one point or another.

Thanks.

[Samhain]

You're welcome.