Steam release ?

Raisti · Post by **Raisti** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:47 pm

Will there be a Release on Steam ?
Would love to see this Game on Steam and i would definitly buy it then

soldier · Post by **soldier** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:16 pm

Steam

I've had nothing but trouble with that horrible program

Razz1 · Post by **Razz1** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:44 pm

I hat steam with a passion.

lordzimoa · Post by **lordzimoa** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:14 pm

Guys, Slitherine`s and Matrix digital shops are definitely on par with Steam, maybe even better. And yes, I use both, so know them well.

Panzer Corps will be available as a digital download including a full manual in PDF, with the option to order a boxed version on demand with a printed colour manual. Both games are completely identical though and they come with free limitless support and re-downloads. Scenario Editor and Editor manual is also included within the game, no DRM except for a personal serial number.

Registration at Slitherine is free and will give you access to the server based PBEM++ MP games, that is really fantastic. No server charges of course and on top, when registering you can choose to sign up to the newsletters to receive regular updates,offers and discounts on Panzer Corps and the rest of Slitherine’s past, current and future catalogue so it is worth registering!

Have a look if interested at the shops in detail:

viewtopic.php?t=20216

VPaulus · Post by **VPaulus** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:52 pm

Besides by buying in Matrix/Slitherine digital shops, you're assuring that the money goes fully to the developers.
This way you're supporting them.

Raisti · Post by **Raisti** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:55 pm

First 2 Posters. Plz go and die you Attention Whores.
Nothing on topic.

If you hate steam, hate it somewhere else

@lordzimoa

This got nothing to do with what features a shop got or not
I trust you when you say the Slitherine shop is good

But it doesnt answer my question.
I personally dont want 10 different Accounts on 10 different Distribution Platforms
I want all my Games in one Place

(310 currently on Steam ^^)

I use steam since release and never got a problem with them so i stick with them

I also dont buy Battlefield 3 cause it wont be on steam (yet another store you have to register "origin" from ea)

So can anyone answer my question if there will be a steam release ?

@ Vplus
And releasing it to Steam would lead to more Buys cause more People does see that this game even exists

EuroBoss · Post by **EuroBoss** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:42 pm

The more games you add to Steam the bigger and more attractive to hackers and scammers your account is.And not forggetting the endless Steam client updates

Raisti · Post by **Raisti** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:49 pm

I dont care about the pros and cons i just want a simple Yes or No for a Steam release

adherbal · Post by **adherbal** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:26 pm

Whoa, so much aggression...

No there won't be a Steam release, at least not in the near future.

VPaulus · Post by **VPaulus** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:28 pm

Raisti wrote: And releasing it to Steam would lead to more Buys cause more People does see that this game even exists

That's a fair point. But I'm sure that there are other considerations when developers choose not to use Steam distribution channel.
I do buy games at Steam. But if Steam, was my only source to buy games, I'd have already missed some PC gaming jewels, which are rarer in these days.

xmifi · Post by **xmifi** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:27 am

I am sorry to hear that it dosen't come to steam. I am also a user of steam with more then 300 games in my list. This game has allready such a low attention only the hardcore public knows about it. Steam would be a effective way to advertise and get new coustemers which would maybe not even thought about buying this game.

And as for the haters of steam. No one here said it should be exclusive to steam so if you don't like you can buy somewhere else.

soldier · Post by **soldier** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:31 am

No there won't be a Steam release, at least not in the near future.

MrsWargamer · Post by **MrsWargamer** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:44 pm

I don't 'like' Steam per se, but have not really had any trouble with it since using it for Civilization V. Granted I hate Steam Guard, as the first encounter with it required me to get 3 codes sent before one would work. But that was right at the beginning of them using it and likely it was just buggy initially.

I don't subscribe to the 'what if Steam ever goes out of business' paranoia, but I have heard of some nasty email changes stories.

Still, the point of this thread appears to be connected to 'can I get it on Steam' and I think the best reponse is to say the way Matrix Games/Slitherine sells their programs, simply doesn't require Steam at all.

You get a downloaded installer, and it's the entire program, and frankly if a person downloads software and does NOT immediately burn it to a safe storage option, they DESERVE to later be whining they lost their game due to some manner of rotten luck. Only fools download software that is never safely stored off system and then assume their computer will never experience some nasty event.

All I got from buying my hard copy of Civilization V was a faster install speed (not required to download it). I still can't use it till I go online to activate it. Steam allows me to install without the disk should I have never bought it in hard copy. But forget installing it off line.

That's the beauty of Slitherine/Matrix Games products. You buy it, and you keep it forever. You store it safe and you store your serial safe and you can install it as often as you like wherever you like, offline if you like, on a machine never destined to ever see the internet if you wish.
If only EVERY game maker did it this way.

I might be playing Battlefront's new version of Combat Mission if they sold it the way Matrix Games/Slitherine does.
But it is simply not so good as to be worth the hassle. Too many good games on the market to need to bend over and take it from companies that think they know better. They don't.

I like that with Steam, just being online means my games auto update without me even needing to ask. Of course that recent update ruined all my current games in progress too. But oh well, the new update made my current game a better game all the same.

I just wish Slitherine/Matrix Games had a means of built in auto update into their games too.
Also wish, the latest patches were always comprehensive patches ie ditch all the previous files as you only require the most recent one.
But patching a game is hardly what I call a hard task if I need to do a re install.

Raisti · Post by **Raisti** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:00 pm

DSWargamer wrote: That's the beauty of Slitherine/Matrix Games products. You buy it, and you keep it forever. You store it safe and you store your serial safe and you can install it as often as you like wherever you like, offline if you like, on a machine never destined to ever see the internet if you wish.

And that is my main problem here.
Let me explain.

Before i read a post in one of my Favorites Forums i didn´t know that this Game or even this Company exists.
I am very interested in this game but i know what will happen if i buy it at the Slitherine Shop.
I Play the Game and be happy, but after a Year (not playing the Game) or so i forget that there is a slitherine shop where i have 1 Game

This is one of the Reason why i refuse to register to multiple OnlineDistributionplatforms.

Yeah you can call me Lazy (just getting old thou

) or what ever but i dont need the game but slitherine could use my money i think

Btw slitherine could still use their Shop for Authenification or anything else if needed. There are engouh Games on Steam that also require another Publisher Authentification like Games for Windows Live.

/edit

Want to add a little
Steam is also a huge success Story for Little Game Studios / Indi developers which Slitherine clearly is (nver heard about them before)
For example Amnesia The Dark Descent. The wildest Dreams of the Developers where to sell 100.000 Copies.
Steam Release got them over 200.000 sold copies.

Wouldn´t hurt Slitherine to release it on Steam or do i miss something here from the developer side ?

adherbal · Post by **adherbal** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:32 pm

I'm not an expert on the issue, but AFAIK:
-Steam has to "accept" your game. I've heard they're not accepting new developers at the moment?
-Steam obviously takes X % of your revenue.
-They don't do any advertising for you. I'm not very familiar with Steam, but just being in their games list doesn't put you in the spotlight does it?

VPaulus · Post by **VPaulus** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:58 pm

adherbal wrote:I'm not an expert on the issue, but AFAIK:
-Steam has to "accept" your game. I've heard they're not accepting new developers at the moment?

I might be wrong, but I think there's also another problem. You might not release, specially if you're a small or indie developer whenever you want.
Like I've said I'm not sure, but that's the idea I have.
And yes they don't accept everybody.

Raisti · Post by **Raisti** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:02 pm

adherbal wrote: -Steam has to "accept" your game. I've heard they're not accepting new developers at the moment?

Dont know but in know that many little Development Teams had no Problem to put their Products on Steam

adherbal wrote: -Steam obviously takes X % of your revenue.

They migth take x % of your revenue but its better than no sold game at all

Me for example wont buy it and dont forget the millions of Steam user who doesnt even know this game exists.

adherbal wrote: -They don't do any advertising for you. I'm not very familiar with Steam, but just being in their games list doesn't put you in the spotlight does it?

Advertising is mostly trough Sales but you dont have to praticipate in them.
There is also a Big Window for Spotlighted Games in the Shop but dont ask me how to get in this.

So can we plz now stop the stupid discussion of pro´s and con´s of Steam. its not leading anywhere.

lordzimoa · Post by **lordzimoa** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:08 pm

Steam is also a huge success Story for Little Game Studios / Indi developers which Slitherine clearly is (nver heard about them before)
For example Amnesia The Dark Descent. The wildest Dreams of the Developers where to sell 100.000 Copies.
Steam Release got them over 200.000 sold copies.

Wouldn´t hurt Slitherine to release it on Steam or do i miss something here from the developer side ?

but its better than no sold game at all

You clearly see yourself looking at your statements as an expert developer and experienced publisher.

No doubt Steam can, when all conditions are right, offer something extra.

Just for the record Matrix has been into strategy game publishing since the 80`s, they were one of the first to start with digital downloads, years before even Steam existed and are since many years one of the leading publishers in the niche market of strategy gaming, especially in North America/Canada. Slitherine as a European based developer, since the 90`s, produced and sold several game titles with over 200.000 copies. Since they hooked up together, you are talking about a rapid growing world wide company, with a portfolio of over 250 titles and a 7 zero digit annual turnover. With classics developers as SSG, Talonsoft, Gary Grisby, Panther Games and well known series as Close Combat, Field of Glory, Commander, Legion and working with brands like BBC, History, Scholastic, Osprey and Military History. Developing games on PC, Mac, Xbox 360, PS2, PS3, NDS, Iphone, Ipad, Android, PSP... In effect Slitherine/Matrix is at the moment the largest publisher specialised in strategy and war games worldwide.

So just because you have not heard of Slitherine/Matrix before, coming to the conclusion all here all small potatoes knowing nothing of the market by not going to Steam is rather well... presumptuous.

Steam has some serious downsides for us as niche market strategy game developers:

- They take another 30% on top of your publishers cut
- They are AAA focused and work with all the big boys out there, meaning that is direct competition against companies who spent millions on advertising and PR alone. So getting in the spotlight on Steam is, as a small developer, nearly impossible. There are exceptions, but the majority just evaporates in their huge and AAA focused portfolio quite fast. You cannot compete and let alone, get some cover on the front page, getting a day is already a great achievement and only a few Indie games managed to do so. And even than because they got the help of some big publishing friends or were hits even before getting on Steam. So your changes are rather tiny.
- Basically as an Indie the only way you can get noticed is to sell your game really below your market value, for us that would mean something like 19.99 USD or even lower meaning, together with the 30% extra charges we would have to sell 100% copies more just to get on Steam. Now a game like Panzer Corps we worked on for almost two years with a core of 7 without any pay and in total maybe 15 people were involved, costs are around 4-5 zero digits, we paid out of our own pocket. So way to risky to gamble on Steam. It is hard enough getting some profit on these kind of games.
- At the moment they have so many games, they are not interested in taking on anything more Indie, priority for them are the big selling AA titles, that is where there biggest profit is. They support Indie as that is good for their image and cannot hurt them, but they are a digital download service alone, they don`t help you in any way getting any PR, on the contrary you have to pay for extra cover and than your competition is EA or SEGA...

However Steam could be interesting in the future after 12 months or so and we have had our prime sales and proper support by a trusted and committed publisher as Slith/Matrix and offer the game at a bottom price and the quality of the game and positive reviews have already given us some more credibility and we have a dose of good luck. For sure getting 100.000 copies on Steam would be great! I would sign for it any day.

We are still looking and discussing this intern, some Indie`s did well and it can be a great help, if all falls in place,but the risk is not worth it from day one. A lot of Indies just were a total flop on Steam, even their games were pretty good.

I see Steam as an extra, a bonus, something we should try and see how it goes and Panzer Corps definitely could maybe succeed on Steam, but not on day one, as when it than flops it would mean game over for us as a developer, a risk we just cannot afford to take.

If you like our products and work, just buy the game here, Steam is good but not for very developer or every type of game or every market.

I like Steam myself, use it and like it, but I disagree with your view we are not knowing what we are doing, by not opting for Steam on day one.

Cheers,

Tim aka LZ

MrsWargamer · Post by **MrsWargamer** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:35 pm

Hmm everytime I see comments to the effect 'never heard of Matrix Games and or Slitherine' I can only wonder, how long have you been a wargamer? 5 minutes?

Or possibly you are old school and have never owned a computer until yesterday.

I discovered Matrix Games back when they were some guys that made a variant of Steel Panthers that was free to download. This was back in 2000 and they had a 5 year goal to be somebody in the wargaming industry if possible.

I can't claim to know how long Slitherine has graced our lives.

But there were some at Matrix Games wondering why they would want to join forces with Slitherine. It was humourous of course. What does Slitherine have to offer us was a common comment.

Slitherine though has access to some fairly serious supporting interests like the BBC and History Channel, nothing to sneeze at to be sure.
Matrix Games simply has every wargame worth mention for the computer with the exception of a couple of titles from Battlefront and the stuff from HPS which seems trapped in a bubble in time for look (not that that is a crime).

Not knowing who Matrix Games is, is like never having heard of EA games all because the person has no interest in console games.

I am not surprised though when I mention Matrix Games in a console store and they have never heard of them. So what, you could give me a 1000 bucks and tell me I have to spend it on console games, and chances are I buy a couple of titles and totally make some kids day give them the other 900 bucks hehe. Because I couldn't care less for the most part for the console game industry outside of a VERY small list of DS Games (which I already own, so the 1000 bucks wouldn't help much there).

The predominant comment I see where Steam is concerned by fans, is how awesome it is they sell games often for peanuts.
Right now they have on a summer sale and it's like nothing is more than half price.
Nice if you have no money and yet still want a lot of games.

But I never begrudge a game maker for a game I can presume I will play till hell freezes over.
I paid 40 bucks for BBC Battlefield Academy. I'd have paid 100 bucks if that had been the price.
Paid 100 bucks for War in the East. Also likely worth it, although it is some complex, I likely will never really get around to playing it.
There ARE games not worth 100 bucks or 10 bucks for that matter of course. Theatre of War, nothing more than the current version of GI Combat. 3d real time and they suck. Yes I have played it. Now THAT is a game you want a demo for.

I am not even surprised to discover that Panzer Korps is made by the guy that did Panzer General Forever. Actually makes sense

That alone has me waiting to buy it the minute I can get my hands on it.
Not even interested in what the price is. Not relevant.
I likely would grumble a lot and not by it if it was being sold by Battlefront though. After all, I could always just play the older tweaked PGForever if I had to

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:16 pm

Guys lets all be nice

We know that not everyone has heard about Slitherine, but we are working on it!

You do not need to register to buy a game - you just click buy and go through the purchase process like you would in any online store.

There are advantages and disadvantages to Steam but for now we will not be releasing there.

You may not have heard of us before but the PR campaign has been picking up and the fact you're here shows it is working!

I'm sorry if you feel you only want to buy your games from Steam, but you'll only be able to get the games direct from us for now. Hopefully you'll see the game and change your mind! It is going to be absolutely huge

Just so you know we are not an indie developer. We are a publisher and have sold millions of units across all platforms including PC, Mac, PSP, PS3, NDS, Wii, X360, iPhone, iPad etc. Our catalogue includes over 100 games with 10-20 new releases a year. I'm not saying we're the biggest publisher in the world, but we are the biggest specialist strategy games publisher in the world!