Capturing Artillery

[ethan]

Had a situation come up last night we couldn't quite figure out.

An infantry unit broken the opposing unit and then during the pursuit hit an artillery unit, which is captured. Enemy cavalry unit is in range to charge the newly captured artillery (and would hit the rear of the artillery first).

Best I can tell the infantry unit does not count as supporting the artillery unit so can't/won't step forward to engage the cavalry if it charge the guns.

As a seperate point, the infantry unit captures the guns when it touches the on base I believe and doesn't continue the pursuit/wheel/whatever to fully line up with the gun bases.

In order to count as "supporting the guns" you have to be lined up edge to edge, etc with the guns not just in contact with a corner of the guns I believe.

[deadtorius]

The gun is captured if the enemy infantry ends up contacting it in such a way that it would normally result in close combat. First bullet says the artillery has to have foot battle troops touching all its rear edges to provide support. In this case the foot is in partial contact with the front so they capture the guns, but the cavalry then can recapture them by moving into contact with the guns next turn.
(Blast it lads turn them things around before that horse over there gets here or we don't get no credit for taking the bloody things )

However the guns can not fire again unless a foot unit moves into contact with them so you may gain or lose the attrition points, but the guns will not be able to fire if only the cav recaptures them.

[Urizen]

If the situation remained like this, would the ownership of the guns keep swapping with the active player?

Also what happens if the infantry move to a supporting position in their turn with the cavalry still in contact? Would there be an impact?

[deadtorius]

Guns can be captured and recaptured throughout the game, if recaptured the owning player who originally had the guns gets the 2 break points back, and can lose them again if the gun is recaptured. The gun will drop to poor for the rest of the game, so re-rolling all those 6's.

Once captured guns remain the property of the capturing player until they are recaptured, so you would have to drive off the enemy infantry that captured the guns, otherwise they remain property of their new owner.

I believe if the guns are in contact with enemy cavalry you have to charge the cav in order to make contact with the guns, so you would have to pass a CT to charge mounted with foot, then fight an impact, the contact point would be the front of the gun bases, so any break offs or routs would be measured from there. If the infantry drives the cav off, the guns are recaptured and can fire as poor quality. If the cav win the guns remain captured and but still can't shoot.
If the guns are left alone unsupported and you move an infantry unit up to them you automatically capture them.

[footslogger]

One more question on capturing artillery.

When do units test for seeing artillery captured? An infantry unit charges two batteries side by side, one supported. The one that isn't is immediately captured. We played that the test doesn't occur until after the impact is fought (and would be an additional cause factor on the test if the other unit had to test for losing the impact). Not sure that's correct though.

[timmy1]

Page 146.

Final bullet in the left hand column

'Test a batlle group if... friendly artillery within 3MU is captured for the first time'

First bullet in the right hand column

'Immediately if a FRAGMENTED battle group breaks in response to being changed. Otherwise at the end of the current phase after resolving (all other non seeing friends break tests).'

So yes it is at the end of the phase (does not have to be an impact phase) but it is a seperate test.