Time to switch to OGG

duncan · Post by **duncan** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:48 am

According to this

http://www.devhardware.com/c/a/Mobile-D ... rget-iPod/

mp3 portable players (Ipod-like) will be taxed in Holland: 3,28 ?‚¬ per Gb...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was thinking of getting a 40 Gb mp3 player...(Iaudio X5L)...this will cost +120 ?‚¬!!!!!!!! in Holland if the proposed law is acepted...This law will be passed soon in your countries too (you know, why not? cash-cow politics)

EDIT: the tax has not been imposed by mp3 owners...

BUT

Switch to ogg. Your cat will like it.

efthimios · Post by **efthimios** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:44 am

About 1/8th of my ripped music is in OGG, it would be more but I am too lazy to rip the cds again. (hundrends of cds)

ste · Post by **ste** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:47 pm

In the UK an MP3 player would be classed under luxury good, and hence subject to VAT, but it wouldn't suprise me under this government if they taxed it again with some sort of music tax, or something... cash cow politics.

Redpossum · Post by **Redpossum** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:52 am

Oh man, that sucks major.

Americans would riot in the streets if they tried that here.

Actually, I think American politicians have realised that keeping the American people pacified and content is largely a matter of being sure we have access to a wide variety of consumer goods, of reasonable quality, and at not-too-unreasonable prices.

ste · Post by **ste** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:33 pm

Well dont americans have Sales Tax? Im sure they did when I went to Florida... even so, american sales tax is no way near the rate our VAT is currently at... 17.5%!!! Scandalous, and what do they do with the money, i'd derely like to know, lol

Redpossum · Post by **Redpossum** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 5:24 pm

Yes, sir, we do have sales tax. But that's a state-imposed tax, not a tax imposed by the federal (i.e. national) government.

Sales tax in my own state of California is only 7.25%, but in some of the corrupt east-coast states, it can go as high as 13% or more.

When we buy food at the market, to prepare at home, there is no tax on that at all.

A meal purchased in a restaurant, even McDonald's, is taxed.

What I was saying would infuriate Americans to the point of violence is the idea that consumer goods should be taxed at a higher rate.

There too, you should understand that many Americans have a secret anti-european bias. Not against euros as people, (who are generally welcomed here), but against european ways of doing things.

When American liberals try to sell us a plan with the cry, "But that's how it's done in europe!", many of us think to ourselves, "Then to hell with that idea!".

This is just another aspect of our greatest weakness, which is the unthinking cultural chauvinism that comes from growing up so isolated. It's very easy for an American to be born, live his/her life, and die, all without ever leaving the USA. And that isn't considered to be at all unusual or undesirable.

We Americans are a generous, good-hearted people. But we often do more harm than good, simply through failure to understand. All gods witness, we're certainly the most forgiving nation on the face of the planet, sometimes foolishly so.

Heh, I'm rambling...

efthimios · Post by **efthimios** » Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:59 pm

Since so far I live in countries where there is heavy taxation, I have to ask you , why are you in favour of placing taxes on consumer goods?

I know that in some states there isn't any sale tax, and where there is, it is much lower than in EU, but I can't think of a reason to want to change that.

Redpossum · Post by **Redpossum** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:34 am

Oh, I am *not* in favor of any taxation at all.

I'm a Libertarian, or that's the closest common label to what I am.

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.

Oh, and as far as I know, there are only 2 or 3 states that have no sales tax at all. California's 7.25% is about in the middle.

efthimios · Post by **efthimios** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:47 am

Oh, that is what some people have "accused" me to be lol. I do not put any labels to myself, I believe what I believe.

ste · Post by **ste** » Sun Jul 17, 2005 4:32 pm

I am a follower of more liberal political stances, but I am not a Marxist, hence I do think some degree of taxation is required in order to sustaion a healthy and expanding encomony and society. For instance free healthcare that we have in country (even if we are all contracting MRSA and dieing!) is in my opinion a nice thing to have.

With regards to Possum's post about rioting if your fedral government imposed a VAT style tax (i.e.: blanket tax on "luxury goods"), I think your probrably right, look how mad you get when your fuel goes up a few cents

We on the other hand (more to the pitty) don't have the ahem-balls to riot about imposed taxes or fuel rises, we did try blockading the petrol stations once because our fuel had risen to I think it was 80-82pence a litre... which is about 4 quid a gallon (thats $7 approx), but that was short lived once it started to effect the capital.

And again, in reponse to the post by Possum, I heard a statistic that about the amount of american who dont even own a passport, it was something insane near 50%. I have been lucky enough in my lifetime to visit quite a few different countries, from France, to Eygpt. Switzerland to the USA, and I can't imagine why anyone would want to stay in the same place their entire life, even if you do have unlimited refills in McDonalds

Redpossum · Post by **Redpossum** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:04 am

ste wrote:I am a follower of more liberal political stances, but I am not a Marxist, hence I do think some degree of taxation is required in order to sustaion a healthy and expanding encomony and society. For instance free healthcare that we have in country (even if we are all contracting MRSA and dieing!) is in my opinion a nice thing to have.

Well, I'm glad you're not a marxist

ste wrote:With regards to Possum's post about rioting if your fedral government imposed a VAT style tax (i.e.: blanket tax on "luxury goods"), I think your probrably right, look how mad you get when your fuel goes up a few cents We on the other hand (more to the pitty) don't have the ahem-balls to riot about imposed taxes or fuel rises, we did try blockading the petrol stations once because our fuel had risen to I think it was 80-82pence a litre... which is about 4 quid a gallon (thats $7 approx), but that was short lived once it started to effect the capital.

Well, there are reasons for our government not to abuse us too badly, or piss us off too much. We are, after all, the most heavily armed populace to be found in any developed country. Especially here in the West, owning and shooting guns is part of our heritage. Take my family, for example. We've been in California since the early 1840's, when it was still part of Mexico. Not only am I a shooter, not only were my dad and both grandfathers shooters, but my mother and her mother were both shooters as well. My Uncle Hal started teaching my mom to shoot when she was 6 years old.

Furthermore, not only was our nation born in revolution, our Constitution bluntly authorises us to do it again if our government grows too abusive.

There are reasons

ste wrote: And again, in reponse to the post by Possum, I heard a statistic that about the amount of american who dont even own a passport, it was something insane near 50%. I have been lucky enough in my lifetime to visit quite a few different countries, from France, to Eygpt. Switzerland to the USA, and I can't imagine why anyone would want to stay in the same place their entire life, even if you do have unlimited refills in McDonalds

Yeah, we are guilty of this, but let me offer two points in our defense.

1) America is tupping huge. It is, after all, 3000 miles from coast to coast. There is a lot to do and see without ever leaving the country.

2) Did you know that we are allowed entry to Canada and Mexico without a passport? Both of those are big, big countries as well, with decades worth of interesting vacation spots.

In the end, though, I must agree that the vast majority of my countrymen would benefit from spending a little time in europe, while they're still young enough to be open-minded. I know it changed me and my attitudes forever.

ste · Post by **ste** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:17 pm

I also believe you are incorrect about one of your statistics (or claims as you did not directly quote figures), In Switzerland every man is required to partake in national service (for those of you who aren't in the know it is mandatory military service), after which they are authorised to keep their guns, so in Switzerland almost everyman has a weapon and knows how to use it... yeah their gun crime rates are on of the lowest in europe, go figure...

Redpossum · Post by **Redpossum** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:45 pm

Guns don't cause crime.

Criminals cause crime.

And you're right about the Helvetians. The Helvetic Confederation, (the formal swiss name for Switzerland), uses a variant of the old prussian reserve system, originally devised by Frederick the Great. Indeed, most european countries do.

All able-bodied males are required to complete a term of active service, usually 1-2 years, after which they are members of the reserves until later middle-age, usually 45 or 50.

SMK-at-work · Post by **SMK-at-work** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:53 am

What's OGG?

[flame suit]BTW societies allow crime.........even when they say they don't.

And they can stop crime - even when every person is armed.

And the long rifles used by the Swiss are covered by serious anti-gun laws for everything else and are not quite in the same category as handguns carried in handbags by some people .......[/flame suit]

ste · Post by **ste** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:24 am

OGG = Ogg Vorbis, a compressed sound format that is free to use unlike MP3 for which you have to pay a license.

Redpossum · Post by **Redpossum** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:43 pm

Guys, it's my fault and nobody else's, but this thread is on the verge of turning into a debate on gun control, which is politics.

And discussing politics or religion is a good way to lose friends, so let's not

Anyhow, I am going to stop talking about this now, before someone takes offense...

ste · Post by **ste** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:30 am

So OGG Vorbis then...

Redpossum · Post by **Redpossum** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:46 pm

Yes, by jove, that good old ogg vorbis...

Why have I never heard of it before now?

efthimios · Post by **efthimios** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:48 am

Considering all the ipod craze going on, or ipod whoring as I like to call it, it is not surprise that people never heard of ogg. As far as I know ipods do not play ogg files. Then again it is not just that, magazines, sites, people always talk about mp3s and perhaps wma, don't give people too many choices, they will get confused. On the other hand OGG is free and IMO of superior quality.
Hmm, ok that should bring the conversation on track.

SMK-at-work · Post by **SMK-at-work** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 12:58 am

Right - so when I get a new stereo for my lovely new Stag I should make sure it plays OGG