Questions and confirmations from a first game

[andy816]

Played the first game last night Huns v Carthaginians. Both of us absolute beginners but after about 2 hours we were starting to run through some of the procedures like old hands, it must be an easy to learn simple game if i can make that claim. We found the game enjoyable, absorbing very pleasant and clean to play (no bunging hoorah!!!) not realising four hours had passed so quickly when we had to stop.

The game didn't achieve a result before we had to finish but it would be good to verify some points that came up in the game.

On one flank touching a table edge inwards,2 BGs of 4 Numidian LH faced of against 1 BG of 5 Hunnic LH (yes we now know 5 is a useless number for shooting purposes). We had both deployed in single line formation the Numidians as a battle line. The huns advanced the numidians advanced an contracted to become 2 2X2 blocks. Numidian BG1 is now 1 base width from the table edge, there is a 2 element wide gap to BG2. The huns advance again to bow range and a BG of nobles moves forward parrallel so its ZOI protrudes 1" ahead of the LH inner most flank. The huns shoot and can bring 4 bases to bear on BG1. 2 dice score 2 hits and Numidian BG1 fails its CT. 1 base cant be halved so nothing shoots at BG2.
Numidian bound so BG's 1 & 2 declare charges. BG1 fails its CMT so can't. BG 2 wheels and moves to contact (the huns chose not to evade). The wheel allows them to miss the ZOI of the nobles and they contact the second element in of the Hunnic line also ignoring the restricted area of the first element. They then stepped forward so 2 bases contacted 2 bases.

*We could not find anything to say a BG must move straight forward to contact if it can, so thought this was OK.*

Subsequently BG1 recovered cohesion to steady and also charged. The Huns now wished they could evade but were perevented becauase it is not an allowed move for a BG in combat?

This was now a multiple combat point and we broke the combat down as the rules directed and then accumulated the results at the end. BG1 lost by 2 casualties to the Huns, BG2 won by 1 casualty. The accumulated result meant the Huns had won overall by 1 casualty so no CT.
Numidian BG2 had won by 1 casualty so no CT. Numidian BG1 had lost by 2 so a CT is required which could also be a double drop. Correct?

We made one mistake that could be partly attributed to the rules presentation. During the game there were several occasions to take a CT. We went to the Troop degradation section as expected and followed the instructions from that section. So troops in combat need a general with them to gain his assistance when trying to bolster their morale. Later in the game we decided to throw some generals into combat to asses their effect. We turned to the Generals in combat section and then found he can only aid troops in combat taking a cohesion test if he is fighting in the front rank. We had been doing it wrong for most of our game. Whilst the rule is printed and we forgot it, perhaps if it had been made clearer on the CT table we would not have made the error.

In the post game analysis we realised how much of a one hit wonder an impact POA is whilst a melee POA has far more durability. Looking at the LH combat on the flank, we wondered if a general in the front rank when the Numidians charged to maximise their impact advantage could have been a decisive move. This then brought on the debate
"ah yes, but i might have chose to evade if the general was in the front rank"
"ah yes, but i would not have declared it until after contact"
"can you do that"
We could not find anything to show at what point Generals must declare they are in the front rank, so a clarification would be helpful.

Cheers

Andy Robinson

[rbodleyscott]

The game didn't achieve a result before we had to finish but it would be good to verify some points that came up in the game.

On one flank touching a table edge inwards,2 BGs of 4 Numidian LH faced of against 1 BG of 5 Hunnic LH (yes we now know 5 is a useless number for shooting purposes). We had both deployed in single line formation the Numidians as a battle line. The huns advanced the numidians advanced an contracted to become 2 2X2 blocks. Numidian BG1 is now 1 base width from the table edge, there is a 2 element wide gap to BG2. The huns advance again to bow range and a BG of nobles moves forward parrallel so its ZOI protrudes 1" ahead of the LH inner most flank. The huns shoot and can bring 4 bases to bear on BG1. 2 dice score 2 hits and Numidian BG1 fails its CT. 1 base cant be halved so nothing shoots at BG2.
Numidian bound so BG's 1 & 2 declare charges. BG1 fails its CMT so can't. BG 2 wheels and moves to contact (the huns chose not to evade). The wheel allows them to miss the ZOI of the nobles and they contact the second element in of the Hunnic line also ignoring the restricted area of the first element. They then stepped forward so 2 bases contacted 2 bases.

*We could not find anything to say a BG must move straight forward to contact if it can, so thought this was OK.*

Subsequently BG1 recovered cohesion to steady and also charged. The Huns now wished they could evade but were perevented becauase it is not an allowed move for a BG in combat?

This was now a multiple combat point and we broke the combat down as the rules directed and then accumulated the results at the end. BG1 lost by 2 casualties to the Huns, BG2 won by 1 casualty. The accumulated result meant the Huns had won overall by 1 casualty so no CT.
Numidian BG2 had won by 1 casualty so no CT. Numidian BG1 had lost by 2 so a CT is required which could also be a double drop. Correct?

All correct so far, except that BGs have to start with even numbers of bases, so a BG of 5 is illegal anyway.

We made one mistake that could be partly attributed to the rules presentation. During the game there were several occasions to take a CT. We went to the Troop degradation section as expected and followed the instructions from that section. So troops in combat need a general with them to gain his assistance when trying to bolster their morale. Later in the game we decided to throw some generals into combat to asses their effect. We turned to the Generals in combat section and then found he can only aid troops in combat taking a cohesion test if he is fighting in the front rank. We had been doing it wrong for most of our game. Whilst the rule is printed and we forgot it, perhaps if it had been made clearer on the CT table we would not have made the error.

You did it right. The bit in the general's section is a fossil which failed to get taken out when we changed it so that he only has to be with the BG not fighting in the front rank. See the Errata for Leeds thread.

In the post game analysis we realised how much of a one hit wonder an impact POA is whilst a melee POA has far more durability. Looking at the LH combat on the flank, we wondered if a general in the front rank when the Numidians charged to maximise their impact advantage could have been a decisive move. This then brought on the debate
"ah yes, but i might have chose to evade if the general was in the front rank"
"ah yes, but i would not have declared it until after contact"
"can you do that"
We could not find anything to show at what point Generals must declare they are in the front rank, so a clarification would be helpful.

At any point is the answer - although I agree it needs clarification.

[hammy]

We found the game enjoyable, absorbing very pleasant and clean to play (no bunging hoorah!!!) not realising four hours had passed so quickly when we had to stop.

The game didn't achieve a result before we had to finish but it would be good to verify some points that came up in the game.

I too found my first games flew by and that I didn't get results. It took me 4 or 5 games to get to a point where a result felt likely within a reasonable time and now (after 10 or more) time still flies but I get results most of the time in about 3 hours.

On one flank touching a table edge inwards,2 BGs of 4 Numidian LH faced of against 1 BG of 5 Hunnic LH (yes we now know 5 is a useless number for shooting purposes).

5 is also not an allowed number for an undamaged BG, see Points values on page 71 (actually it is fairly well hidden)

*We could not find anything to say a BG must move straight forward to contact if it can, so thought this was OK.*

I think it is OK too.

Subsequently BG1 recovered cohesion to steady and also charged. The Huns now wished they could evade but were perevented becauase it is not an allowed move for a BG in combat?

That is my understanding too.

This was now a multiple combat point and we broke the combat down as the rules directed and then accumulated the results at the end. BG1 lost by 2 casualties to the Huns, BG2 won by 1 casualty. The accumulated result meant the Huns had won overall by 1 casualty so no CT.
Numidian BG2 had won by 1 casualty so no CT. Numidian BG1 had lost by 2 so a CT is required which could also be a double drop. Correct?

Yes

We made one mistake that could be partly attributed to the rules presentation. During the game there were several occasions to take a CT. We went to the Troop degradation section as expected and followed the instructions from that section. So troops in combat need a general with them to gain his assistance when trying to bolster their morale. Later in the game we decided to throw some generals into combat to asses their effect. We turned to the Generals in combat section and then found he can only aid troops in combat taking a cohesion test if he is fighting in the front rank. We had been doing it wrong for most of our game. Whilst the rule is printed and we forgot it, perhaps if it had been made clearer on the CT table we would not have made the error.

You didn't make an error, there is an error in the rules. Generals can add to CT's of BG's in combat simply by being with the BG rather than in the front rank. This is a fossil from a previous version.

In the post game analysis we realised how much of a one hit wonder an impact POA is whilst a melee POA has far more durability. Looking at the LH combat on the flank, we wondered if a general in the front rank when the Numidians charged to maximise their impact advantage could have been a decisive move. This then brought on the debate
"ah yes, but i might have chose to evade if the general was in the front rank"
"ah yes, but i would not have declared it until after contact"
"can you do that"
We could not find anything to show at what point Generals must declare they are in the front rank, so a clarification would be helpful.

Troops with an impact advantage but no melee advantage need to at least disrupt their opponent at impact. As far as generals entering combat I think that should be declared at the start of the relevant combat round.

See you at the weekend

Hammy