Questions

[roanur]

The following arose in a game yesterday, sorry if they are old hat and have been answered already:

Shooting fragmented, is there a minimum dice or can the lose 1 dice per 2 cancel out any shooting?
eg 2 bases LH fragmented, would get 1 dice but lose 1 dice for being fragmented.
We played they didnt get any shooting.

Overlaps and shooting.
Were we right in assuming you can shoot at a BG that is offering an overlap but not itself in close combat?

The loss of dice for being disrupted, fragmented etc, is this for full or part thereof?
eg Disrupted 3 dice goes down to 2 dice, but disrupted 2 dice stays as 2 dice?

Finally a word on generals, think I/C generals are to expensive, already leaning towards the 1xF/C and 3x T/C as the most cost effective general combination. We played with one side with 3xF/C and one side 1xI/C, 1xF/C and 2xT/C, and both came to the agreement that I/C at 80pts was to expensive and that the 1xF/C and 3xT/C was a good combo.

Battle report hopefully to follow later.

[rbodleyscott]

Shooting fragmented, is there a minimum dice or can the lose 1 dice per 2 cancel out any shooting?
eg 2 bases LH fragmented, would get 1 dice but lose 1 dice for being fragmented.
We played they didnt get any shooting.

Lose 1 dice per 2 means what it says. If you don't have 2 dice you dont lose any.

Overlaps and shooting.
Were we right in assuming you can shoot at a BG that is offering an overlap but not itself in close combat?

You can shoot at any bases that are not actually in close combat or fighting as an overlap. Thus if a BG in combat "overlaps" the enemy by 2 files you can shoot at the 2nd base away. (The one that can't fight). It can shoot back.

The loss of dice for being disrupted, fragmented etc, is this for full or part thereof?
eg Disrupted 3 dice goes down to 2 dice, but disrupted 2 dice stays as 2 dice?

Correct.

[roanur]

Shooting fragmented, is there a minimum dice or can the lose 1 dice per 2 cancel out any shooting?
eg 2 bases LH fragmented, would get 1 dice but lose 1 dice for being fragmented.
We played they didnt get any shooting.

Lose 1 dice per 2 means what it says. If you don't have 2 dice you dont lose any.

Sorry Richard didnt make myself clear, can the loss of dice through being fragmented etc actually reduce you to zero dice or do you always get to shoot with 1 dice whatever?

Thanks
Steve

[roanur]

Overlaps and shooting.
Were we right in assuming you can shoot at a BG that is offering an overlap but not itself in close combat?

You can shoot at any bases that are not actually in close combat or fighting as an overlap. Thus if a BG in combat "overlaps" the enemy by 2 files you can shoot at the 2nd base away. (The one that can't fight). It can shoot back..

Just to clarify, the rules say that a base cannot be targeted if its battle group is in close combat and it is currently in a position to fight as a 1st or 2nd rank or overlap in melee this bound.

What if the base targeted is in a battle group that isnt in close combat but counting as an overlap to a battle group that is in close combat. Does the battle group supplying an overlap count as being in close combat? And therefore the base counting as an overlap cannot be targeted, but ones next to it could?

Thankyou in advance for your patience!

Steve

[rbodleyscott]

Shooting fragmented, is there a minimum dice or can the lose 1 dice per 2 cancel out any shooting?
eg 2 bases LH fragmented, would get 1 dice but lose 1 dice for being fragmented.
We played they didnt get any shooting.

Lose 1 dice per 2 means what it says. If you don't have 2 dice you dont lose any.

Sorry Richard didnt make myself clear, can the loss of dice through being fragmented etc actually reduce you to zero dice or do you always get to shoot with 1 dice whatever?

You did make yourself clear. Unfortunately, I didn't. But I would rather answer you in terms of the basic principle, which does need to be understood, rather than give you a straight answer but leave you still unclear as to the basic principle.

If you don't have 2 dice if Fragmented or 3 if Disrupted, you don't lose any. Therefore, if you have 1 dice, you don't lose any, so you still have 1 dice.

[rbodleyscott]

You can shoot at any bases that are not actually in close combat or fighting as an overlap. Thus if a BG in combat "overlaps" the enemy by 2 files you can shoot at the 2nd base away. (The one that can't fight). It can shoot back..

Just to clarify, the rules say that a base cannot be targeted if its battle group is in close combat and it is currently in a position to fight as a 1st or 2nd rank or overlap in melee this bound.

What if the base targeted is in a battle group that isnt in close combat but counting as an overlap to a battle group that is in close combat. Does the battle group supplying an overlap count as being in close combat? And therefore the base counting as an overlap cannot be targeted, but ones next to it could?

Yes

[hammy]

Finally a word on generals, think I/C generals are to expensive, already leaning towards the 1xF/C and 3x T/C as the most cost effective general combination. We played with one side with 3xF/C and one side 1xI/C, 1xF/C and 2xT/C, and both came to the agreement that I/C at 80pts was to expensive and that the 1xF/C and 3xT/C was a good combo.

I have never used an IC but have fought against them. The extra command radius is nice but the reall boost is the +1 on CT's. This extra +1 has saved my opponent from a cohesion loss several times and as the game is all about cohesion stopping it going away a a very good thing.

1 FC and 3 TC's does however seem to be a common choice which may indicate there is a points imballance somewhere.

Hammy

[shall]

Sorry Richard didnt make myself clear, can the loss of dice through being fragmented etc actually reduce you to zero dice or do you always get to shoot with 1 dice whatever?

As you cannot lose a dice unless you have 2 as a minimum, so you cannot reduce to zero. The lose 1 dice per 2/3 is literal. If you haven't got 2 you don't lose 1. So anyone starting with 1 dice stays at 1 dice by definition.

Si

[roanur]

In the game last night my I/C kept my Foederate Foot in the fight against Pike and Cataphracts, they were always gonna lose but his +2 on Cohesion tests helped immensely, but still not sure he is worth 30pts more than a F/C.

Probably should have had him fighting in front rank!!!

Steve

[roanur]

Thankyou Richard I now understand, d'oh!!

[neilhammond]

Finally a word on generals, think I/C generals are to expensive, already leaning towards the 1xF/C and 3x T/C as the most cost effective general combination. We played with one side with 3xF/C and one side 1xI/C, 1xF/C and 2xT/C, and both came to the agreement that I/C at 80pts was to expensive and that the 1xF/C and 3xT/C was a good combo.

I have never used an IC but have fought against them. The extra command radius is nice but the reall boost is the +1 on CT's. This extra +1 has saved my opponent from a cohesion loss several times and as the game is all about cohesion stopping it going away a a very good thing.
1 FC and 3 TC's does however seem to be a common choice which may indicate there is a points imballance somewhere.

Yes, I've played several games with an IC but not completely sure it's worth the points. It's nice to have the + on CTs and CMT. One minus factor is that an IC doesn't help with bolstering or rallying units unless he is with that unit. This is probably reasonable, but it does reduce the value of an IC.

[pikey]

I've played several games with and against armies containing an IC. If you anticipate having to make lots of CTs (eg if you are fighting against an army containing lots of Bw) or lots of CMTs (eg if your army has many undrilled BGs) then they are very useful to have. However, in an 800pt army at 80pts each I think that they are a luxury.

Damian

[roanur]

Some more questions from our second game Arab Conquest vs Nikephorian Byzantine.

Rear Support
Did we read it right that you do not have to be facing the same way as the BG to be supported to count as supporting?
Example was a BG of 6 Cuman Mercenaries turned 180 degress and moved back disrupted, Byz Cav expande to fill gap they left.
In the inter-bound I rallied them, the disruption had happened a turn before, gaining the bonus of rear support from Cav.
All requirements were met but we queried whether they should be facing the same way?

Short Moves for Undrilled Foot
If other Undrilled move short without a general it is a cmt, but does moving into contact as an overlap in the movement phase negate the need for a cmt?

Camels
Dastardly Nik used Camels against my Byz lancers, we couldnt work out if the disordering effect of the camels affected a whole BG or just the bases within the disordering effect? We decided it was only the bases affected.
But this then led to loss of dice issues. The problem was that we had a combat of 4 Cm 1 deep and 6 Sp 2 deep vs 4 Cv lancers 1 deep and 4 Kn lancers 1 deep. The camels had hit 3 Cv lancers and 1 Kn whilst the three remaining Kns fought the Sp. The cv fighting the camles were straight forward, but the 1 Kn fighting the Camels on 2 dice would not have been down dice for being disordered and the other Kn fighting the Sp who was also disordered would not have lost any of his 2 dice.
We decided that there was 4 dice worth of disordered Kns and I should therefore lose 1 dice, Nik very gentlemanly allowing me to choose which Kn lost it.
Was this correct and if so you probably need something clearer in the rules or are we missing something completely??
If all of the above is not described well enough I will show you on the weekend!

Overall we both like the game, I'm still not sure it gives me the sense of a battle like DBM did, but more so than 7th, which I hated, ever did!!
The Impact mechanism is very good, enough nuances in tactics and use of troops to keep it interesting for a long time, which I like.

See you all at the weekend

Steve

[roanur]

One thing that did come up last night was the bonus of superior.
As Niks whole army was Superior we really saw the benefit, I think i would always look for superior before even contemplating an I/C.

On the reverse we saw the disadvantage of Poor tropps with a number of my poor skirmishers being caught due to rolling 1s on flees, after I had to re-roll the six i had just rolled lol!!

[bddbrown]

I thought quality re-rolls for VMR was optional? I don't have the rules with me.