Hi all,
am starting to build a Protestant German army for 30 years war. Can anyone give me ideas of uinform / colour theames and also sources for flag / standards designes please? I've trawled the internet and come up with very little, so any and all information would be much appreciated.
thanks
John
Protestant German
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stecal
- Staff Sergeant - Kavallerie
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- Location: Philadelphia, PA USA
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Not alot out there. There are the TYW Ospreys.
Vexilla has aTYW unifrom article by Bill Boyle:
http://www.library.vexillia.ltd.uk/unif ... ms30YW.pdf
Balagan:
http://www.balagan.org.uk/war/thirty-ye ... -guide.htm
WI site has a reprint of an article by Mark Allen:
http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Do ... iforms.pdf
Vexilla has aTYW unifrom article by Bill Boyle:
http://www.library.vexillia.ltd.uk/unif ... ms30YW.pdf
Balagan:
http://www.balagan.org.uk/war/thirty-ye ... -guide.htm
WI site has a reprint of an article by Mark Allen:
http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/Do ... iforms.pdf
Clear the battlefield and let me see
All the profit from our victory.
All the profit from our victory.
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khurasan_miniatures
- Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
- Posts: 480
- Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:32 am
Hi John, here are some thoughts. I should acknowledge that my information is from lots of great period art, kindly provided by Daniel S, but if my analysis below is incorrect in any respect, it's my error, not Daniel's.
If you look at the period art, you usually see the following on Germans/Central Europeans:
short jackets
very baggy pants
hose and shoes (of course)
floppy hat with a very broad brim and a tall conical crown
The short jackets can be of different sub-varieties -- for convenience sake I group them into three styles.
Simple jacket/buff coat -- these can be either as the men who seem to have a sleeveless buff coat and then sleeves emerging from it look, at least in cut, very similar to the men who are in a simple sleeved jacket.
Winged jacket -- this is like the above, but it has a small fluted wing along the join of the shoulder and sleeve. It may be meant to represent the buttoned-up version of the next type.
Schutzenrock -- the "shooting jacket," which had buttoned up sleeves which can be, and usually were, unbuttoned, giving the man greater freedom to move his arms for the use of his long firearm. The sleeve halves are usually seen dangling behind, or in front of and behind, the arms. These invariably have the little wings from the previous jacket type, so it's possible that the previous type is just the schutzenrock but buttoned up.
Pikemen tend to look the same except of course in long-sleeved buff coat and armour. The helmets tend to be burgonets or flat rimmed cabacets, although there are some morion shapes too.
Based on the period sources, I’ve had all of these types made in the so-called “large 15mm” scale.
There will be three 18-model sets of musketeers, in the jacket types described above. Pikemen will be in two sets – a base set and an expansion set. The base set will have 9 pikemen, a drummer, a standardbearer and an officer. The pikemen in this set have tassets. Then there will be an expansion set with similar pikemen but without the tassets, and no command. These can be used to fill in the rear ranks of an ET, the thought being that if there are small numbers of pikemen in the 1600-1638 period, they will tend to be fairly well protected, but in units with lots and lots of pikemen there will not always be enough tassets and those men will fill in the rear ranks. It seems in this period that pikemen were almost invariably well protected. It’s in the later period when pikemen begin to shed their armour.
The sets I’m making are being production cast now, the master castings are complete. I’d estimate that they should be available in about a month, but if you are building in a different scale, or need models immediately, I hope this helps. There’s not really much out there now that does this right on the money, especially the hats, and most models seem to have been modeled on ECW references (which makes sense as the ECW is so popular), which are a bit different from those in Germany during the first half to two-thirds of the war.
If you look at the period art, you usually see the following on Germans/Central Europeans:
short jackets
very baggy pants
hose and shoes (of course)
floppy hat with a very broad brim and a tall conical crown
The short jackets can be of different sub-varieties -- for convenience sake I group them into three styles.
Simple jacket/buff coat -- these can be either as the men who seem to have a sleeveless buff coat and then sleeves emerging from it look, at least in cut, very similar to the men who are in a simple sleeved jacket.
Winged jacket -- this is like the above, but it has a small fluted wing along the join of the shoulder and sleeve. It may be meant to represent the buttoned-up version of the next type.
Schutzenrock -- the "shooting jacket," which had buttoned up sleeves which can be, and usually were, unbuttoned, giving the man greater freedom to move his arms for the use of his long firearm. The sleeve halves are usually seen dangling behind, or in front of and behind, the arms. These invariably have the little wings from the previous jacket type, so it's possible that the previous type is just the schutzenrock but buttoned up.
Pikemen tend to look the same except of course in long-sleeved buff coat and armour. The helmets tend to be burgonets or flat rimmed cabacets, although there are some morion shapes too.
Based on the period sources, I’ve had all of these types made in the so-called “large 15mm” scale.
There will be three 18-model sets of musketeers, in the jacket types described above. Pikemen will be in two sets – a base set and an expansion set. The base set will have 9 pikemen, a drummer, a standardbearer and an officer. The pikemen in this set have tassets. Then there will be an expansion set with similar pikemen but without the tassets, and no command. These can be used to fill in the rear ranks of an ET, the thought being that if there are small numbers of pikemen in the 1600-1638 period, they will tend to be fairly well protected, but in units with lots and lots of pikemen there will not always be enough tassets and those men will fill in the rear ranks. It seems in this period that pikemen were almost invariably well protected. It’s in the later period when pikemen begin to shed their armour.
The sets I’m making are being production cast now, the master castings are complete. I’d estimate that they should be available in about a month, but if you are building in a different scale, or need models immediately, I hope this helps. There’s not really much out there now that does this right on the money, especially the hats, and most models seem to have been modeled on ECW references (which makes sense as the ECW is so popular), which are a bit different from those in Germany during the first half to two-thirds of the war.
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khurasan_miniatures
- Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
- Posts: 480
- Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:32 am
For the hat, trousers and jacket, look at the drummer (although common fighting men do not seem to have often had plumes in their hats):
The jacket is "my" second type -- short, with the little wings on the shoulders. The jacket could be even a bit shorter than that. The officer to the left has a jacket a little longer that what I've usually seen in other period images.
I should point out that this is not a period image, but it looks like a fairly good image as a general guide. I can't find any of the period images Daniel sent in a web trawl.
Interestingly, Gustavus ordered uniforms like this for his troops, so the typical "Swedish" costume (long jacket, modest trousers etc) might not have been as dogmatic as is sometimes depicted!
The jacket is "my" second type -- short, with the little wings on the shoulders. The jacket could be even a bit shorter than that. The officer to the left has a jacket a little longer that what I've usually seen in other period images.
I should point out that this is not a period image, but it looks like a fairly good image as a general guide. I can't find any of the period images Daniel sent in a web trawl.
Interestingly, Gustavus ordered uniforms like this for his troops, so the typical "Swedish" costume (long jacket, modest trousers etc) might not have been as dogmatic as is sometimes depicted!