Mounted and captured artillery

[footslogger]

Has come up in two games that the other sides mounted has captured my artillery. As best as we can tell the captured artillery is then just an impassable object for the capturing mounted. Mounted can't pass through artillery I think. So the only way for the mounted to do anything then is to turn and move off to the side.

Am I missing anything?

[deadtorius]

I think that i pretty much it, you need to get some foot there so you can turn it around and blast its former owners with it.

[Scrumpy]

So how do the mounted pursue any infantry they break in capturing a gun ?

I thought the guns were just removed.

[Blathergut]

Since the arty doesn't count as enemy to either side, would the horse not simply ignore it and follow the foot?

[deadtorius]

Page 126 just says that you have to be foot to capture the guns, if not foot they stay there till someones foot comes by and takes over.

Page 131 talks about initial pursuit but seems to imply that only troops that successfully defended or captured artillery will pursue, mounted can't capture it so no pursuit.

Don't forget that there is more than just a line of guns there, barrels scales tables etc, probably why mounted cant move through.

I think it is up to the authors to make a ruling on this one.

[rbodleyscott]

Has come up in two games that the other sides mounted has captured my artillery. As best as we can tell the captured artillery is then just an impassable object for the capturing mounted. Mounted can't pass through artillery I think. So the only way for the mounted to do anything then is to turn and move off to the side.

Am I missing anything?

No

[footslogger]

Has come up in two games that the other sides mounted has captured my artillery. As best as we can tell the captured artillery is then just an impassable object for the capturing mounted. Mounted can't pass through artillery I think. So the only way for the mounted to do anything then is to turn and move off to the side.

Am I missing anything?

No

I didn't think so, thanks.

Now a follow-on. The mounted capture the gun and are in contact with it, but they don't control it, can't turn it around, and so can't defend it (actually I guess mounted can't defend guns anyway, no matter whether they are turned around). Now I have a nearby foot unit that I move into contact with the gun (while the mounted are still touching it on the other side). I have no idea how this should work. I would guess that the foot recapture the gun without having to fight the mounted, since they aren't defending it (mounted can't). Is that correct?

[rbodleyscott]

Now a follow-on. The mounted capture the gun and are in contact with it, but they don't control it, can't turn it around, and so can't defend it (actually I guess mounted can't defend guns anyway, no matter whether they are turned around). Now I have a nearby foot unit that I move into contact with the gun (while the mounted are still touching it on the other side). I have no idea how this should work. I would guess that the foot recapture the gun without having to fight the mounted, since they aren't defending it (mounted can't). Is that correct?

Yes

[footslogger]

And one last question then. Can the foot recapturing the gun move into contact in any way other than providing rear support to the gun? If they do move in providing rear support, I could imagine that the mounted could then break off in the JAP otherwise an impact phase melee would ensue the following turn.

If they move in, any other way I'm not sure what would happen. This strikes me as perhaps an illegal contact, but I'm really not sure.

(And thanks for the responses).

[hazelbark]

Now a follow-on. The mounted capture the gun and are in contact with it, but they don't control it, can't turn it around, and so can't defend it (actually I guess mounted can't defend guns anyway, no matter whether they are turned around). Now I have a nearby foot unit that I move into contact with the gun (while the mounted are still touching it on the other side). I have no idea how this should work. I would guess that the foot recapture the gun without having to fight the mounted, since they aren't defending it (mounted can't). Is that correct?

Yes

So if enemy mounted take the guns. Can friendly mounted move to what would be "support" position if they were foot and then fight the enemy mounted?

Or is this functionally an uncrossable terrain piece for non-infantry?

[rbodleyscott]

Now a follow-on. The mounted capture the gun and are in contact with it, but they don't control it, can't turn it around, and so can't defend it (actually I guess mounted can't defend guns anyway, no matter whether they are turned around). Now I have a nearby foot unit that I move into contact with the gun (while the mounted are still touching it on the other side). I have no idea how this should work. I would guess that the foot recapture the gun without having to fight the mounted, since they aren't defending it (mounted can't). Is that correct?

Yes

So if enemy mounted take the guns. Can friendly mounted move to what would be "support" position if they were foot and then fight the enemy mounted?

Or is this functionally an uncrossable terrain piece for non-infantry?

In the absence of any rules to the contrary, I suppose it is.

[rbodleyscott]

And one last question then. Can the foot recapturing the gun move into contact in any way other than providing rear support to the gun? If they do move in providing rear support, I could imagine that the mounted could then break off in the JAP otherwise an impact phase melee would ensue the following turn.

If they move in, any other way I'm not sure what would happen. This strikes me as perhaps an illegal contact, but I'm really not sure.

(And thanks for the responses).

To recapture the guns they have to move in in a way that would normally result in close combat.

If this is also a rear support position, since the guns will still be facing the mounted BG, then I guess that a combat would ensue as normal.

If not, then unless they also contact the mounted then no combat would ensue.

Although the wording could be taken as ambiguous, the intention is that the mounted, although in contact with guns, cannot recapture them without moving away and then recontacting them.

[footslogger]

And one last question then. Can the foot recapturing the gun move into contact in any way other than providing rear support to the gun? If they do move in providing rear support, I could imagine that the mounted could then break off in the JAP otherwise an impact phase melee would ensue the following turn.

If they move in, any other way I'm not sure what would happen. This strikes me as perhaps an illegal contact, but I'm really not sure.

(And thanks for the responses).

To recapture the guns they have to move in in a way that would normally result in close combat.

If this is also a rear support position, since the guns will still be facing the mounted BG, then I guess that a combat would ensue as normal.

If not, then unless they also contact the mounted then no combat would ensue.

Although the wording could be taken as ambiguous, the intention is that the mounted, although in contact with guns, cannot recapture them without moving away and then recontacting them.

I think this might need some clarification in the FAQ, as I'm not sure this is going to be a rare occurrence (unusual and infrequent perhaps, but not rare). The only way they could contact the mounted would be in an impact phase move. But if they could move into a rear support position, would this also need to be an impact phase move? (I was assuming not).

The mounted just need to be touching the artillery but they don't count as supporting it ever I think?

[rbodleyscott]

And one last question then. Can the foot recapturing the gun move into contact in any way other than providing rear support to the gun? If they do move in providing rear support, I could imagine that the mounted could then break off in the JAP otherwise an impact phase melee would ensue the following turn.

If they move in, any other way I'm not sure what would happen. This strikes me as perhaps an illegal contact, but I'm really not sure.

(And thanks for the responses).

To recapture the guns they have to move in in a way that would normally result in close combat.

If this is also a rear support position, since the guns will still be facing the mounted BG, then I guess that a combat would ensue as normal.

If not, then unless they also contact the mounted then no combat would ensue.

Although the wording could be taken as ambiguous, the intention is that the mounted, although in contact with guns, cannot recapture them without moving away and then recontacting them.

I think this might need some clarification in the FAQ, as I'm not sure this is going to be a rare occurrence (unusual and infrequent perhaps, but not rare). The only way they could contact the mounted would be in an impact phase move. But if they could move into a rear support position, would this also need to be an impact phase move?

Yes

The mounted just need to be touching the artillery but they don't count as supporting it ever I think?

Correct

[footslogger]

To recapture the guns they have to move in in a way that would normally result in close combat.

If this is also a rear support position, since the guns will still be facing the mounted BG, then I guess that a combat would ensue as normal.

If not, then unless they also contact the mounted then no combat would ensue.

Although the wording could be taken as ambiguous, the intention is that the mounted, although in contact with guns, cannot recapture them without moving away and then recontacting them.

I think this might need some clarification in the FAQ, as I'm not sure this is going to be a rare occurrence (unusual and infrequent perhaps, but not rare). The only way they could contact the mounted would be in an impact phase move. But if they could move into a rear support position, would this also need to be an impact phase move?

Yes

The mounted just need to be touching the artillery but they don't count as supporting it ever I think?

Correct

Thanks.

I'm coming to the conclusion then that if artillery has been captured by mounted and they are still in contact with it, the only way the foot can recapture it is by making a move in the impact phase that either contacts the mounted, or is a move into legal rear support with the battery. Just moving to touch the battery is not legal.

Then, the impact is resolved at that point in time.

[rbodleyscott]

I'm coming to the conclusion then that if artillery has been captured by mounted and they are still in contact with it, the only way the foot can recapture it is by making a move in the impact phase that either contacts the mounted, or is a move into legal rear support with the battery. Just moving to touch the battery is not legal.

True, as far as manouvre phase movement is concerned, but charging into any contact (that would normally result in close combat) with it in the impact phase is.

[footslogger]

I'm coming to the conclusion then that if artillery has been captured by mounted and they are still in contact with it, the only way the foot can recapture it is by making a move in the impact phase that either contacts the mounted, or is a move into legal rear support with the battery. Just moving to touch the battery is not legal.

True, as far as manouvre phase movement is concerned, but charging into any contact (that would normally result in close combat) with it in the impact phase is.

Ah oh. I was following pretty well but this confused me. I would think that the only thing that would result in close combat is either contacting the bases of the mounted (who are in contact with the guns), or moving into a legal rear support position. Is there some other way to charge into contact that would normally result in a close combat?

[rbodleyscott]

I'm coming to the conclusion then that if artillery has been captured by mounted and they are still in contact with it, the only way the foot can recapture it is by making a move in the impact phase that either contacts the mounted, or is a move into legal rear support with the battery. Just moving to touch the battery is not legal.

True, as far as manouvre phase movement is concerned, but charging into any contact (that would normally result in close combat) with it in the impact phase is.

Ah oh. I was following pretty well but this confused me. I would think that the only thing that would result in close combat is either contacting the bases of the mounted (who are in contact with the guns), or moving into a legal rear support position. Is there some other way to charge into contact that would normally result in a close combat?

The close combat contact (in order to capture the non-rear-supported guns) is with the guns, not the mounted. No close combat actually occurs. Non-rear-supported guns are automatically captured when they are contacted by enemy in a contact that would normally result in close combat (i.e. if the target was not non-rear-supported guns).

i.e. You charge non-rear-supported guns. No close combat actually occurs, they are instead automatically captured.

[footslogger]

True, as far as manouvre phase movement is concerned, but charging into any contact (that would normally result in close combat) with it in the impact phase is.

Ah oh. I was following pretty well but this confused me. I would think that the only thing that would result in close combat is either contacting the bases of the mounted (who are in contact with the guns), or moving into a legal rear support position. Is there some other way to charge into contact that would normally result in a close combat?

The close combat contact (in order to capture the non-rear-supported guns) is with the guns, not the mounted. No close combat actually occurs. Non-rear-supported guns are automatically captured when they are contacted by enemy in a contact that would normally result in close combat (i.e. if the target was not non-rear-supported guns).

i.e. You charge non-rear-supported guns. No close combat actually occurs, they are instead automatically captured.

Grrrr. This all makes sense but now makes me think there are other possibilities. (I'm sorry to keep this going. I thought I was about done with it on the 1st of May, but apparently not). So turn 1a some mounted charge some guns and capture them, but don't control them. They are stuck in contact with the guns. On turn 1b some nearby foot charge the guns and capture them and control them, but the charge isn't into a rear support position, so no combat is fought with the mounted. At the end of that turn then enemy mounted and friendly foot are both in contact with the guns and the foot control them. In the next phase do they automatically get captured by the enemy mounted again with no combat being fought, or what?

[rbodleyscott]

In the next phase do they automatically get captured by the enemy mounted again with no combat being fought, or what?

No, because in order to be recaptured they have to be "contacted" not "in contact". A new contact is implicit, though I guess this probably could use an FAQ" clarification.