I reckon...

NotaPacifist · Post by **NotaPacifist** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:08 pm

Playing the Axis just seems too much of a tightrope walk for me. I seem to lose either with: high fuel reserves or high manpower reserves. I just can't seem to find a balance. Anyone got any tips on this with the current mods in place?

richardsd · Post by **richardsd** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:36 am

What overall Strategies are you trying?

1 - Max Barabarossa?
2 - Strong Battle of the Atlantic?
3 - Strong Med?

schwerpunkt · Post by **schwerpunkt** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:37 am

Based on my current game in Feb 45, it does still seem to be a tightrope. My German manpower levels are good (68%) but I've had to manage oil carefully through 1944 (bottomed out at 88 at one point). It really does seem to be very dependent upon your strategy (high oil using units) and what casualties you are prepared to take - I generally aim to minimise my losses which means I forgo some attacks and use oil units to assist, hence my current game position.

NotaPacifist · Post by **NotaPacifist** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:37 am

In my most current game, it's winter 42...early winter. I tried to stay relatively historical and try something different from previous attempts. My conquest plan was Poland>Denmark>Holland>Belgium>France concurrent with Norway>Jugoslavia>Greece>beef up but no offensive action except sweeping the RN from the Med>Late april 41 Barbarossa. 4-5 subs acting in the Atlantic.

Maybe if I had an idea of how much of each type I should wish to have (and be capable of having as well as being teched-up), it might prove useful.

richardsd · Post by **richardsd** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:22 am

I am no expert, but if I think thats too much, which will mean your early Barbarossa is too weak

NotaPacifist · Post by **NotaPacifist** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:29 am

I've stayed to historical timeline, and have over 1k fuel now(I didn't do a Battle of Britain). My Barbarossa, launched early got me within 3 hexes of Moscow. But it was mostly done on the back of infantry. To conserve fuel, I went low on tanks and mechs. I'm just wondering if someone has an idea of what one might call their "usual Barbarossa attack/force"...or something along those lines. I just can't seem to find a balance is all.

richardsd · Post by **richardsd** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:58 am

Ronnie has those stats - ask him nicely!

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:44 am

I think a good strategy is to have some armor and air units for Russia. I try to have at least 6 armor, 4 mech, 6 tac bombers and 6 fighters. You can use them when you're on the offensive and rest the oil consuming units during the winter. When you're on the defensive you use the oil consuming units as reserves. That means you use them for counter attacks to restore the defense line etc.

I think a quick way for the Axis to lose is to slug it out with the Russians / Allies from 1943. The main agenda for the Allies is to kill German units to bring their front line to the brink of collapse. The Allies can replace their losses while the Axis can't. So if you as the Axis "help" the Allies by attacking to inflict some extra damage you actually make it easier for the Allies to get the breakthrough.

A good Axis strategy is to be on the defense and use terrain to hold off the Allies. Eventually the Allies have too many armor / air units and then you will be pushed back, but you can at least postpone this for some months by not being too offensive when you're supposed to be on the defensive.

One of the hardest decisions for the Germans in GS is to understand when it's time to go on the defense. Usually you need to do it earlier than you think. If you go on the defense because you HAVE TO then it's too late. E. g. some Axis player attack too much before the winter and are hit hard by the Russians during the winter. If they had stopped maybe one turn earlier and instead moved to good defensive positions they would have halted much of the Russian counter offensive. When I attack as the Germans I always think if which line I expect to hold for the next winter and try to use my offensive to clear that line. If I have a spare 1-2 turns to move further east I would often decline that unless I can get to the next good defensive line.

richardsd · Post by **richardsd** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:01 am

I certainly agree that when to go on the defensive is a key German decision, I also think people generally have the wrong idea about the German tactic's in Russia, I believe it is key to kill Russian units (whilst minimising your losses), territory is a secondary issue

schwerpunkt · Post by **schwerpunkt** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:40 pm

richardsd wrote:I certainly agree that when to go on the defensive is a key German decision, I also think people generally have the wrong idea about the German tactic's in Russia, I believe it is key to kill Russian units (whilst minimising your losses), territory is a secondary issue

Yes, the key is to only target territory that forces the russian to commit his units, thereby allowing you to kill them....

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:57 pm

This discussion and the way GS palys in Russia is quite historical I feel. In 1941 the Germans pushed on a broad front and also gained all across the front. Not unusal, Hitler was at odds with his generals on strategy. He wanted to destroy Russian units while his generals wanted to capture Moscow. Guess who won that argument? So in August 1941 he diverted a significant number of army group center's tanks to help capture Kiev and encircle large numbers of Russian troops but at the cost of delaying the push on Moscow enough so it survived.

In 1942, the Germans no longer attacked on a broad front but focused their offensive push in the south with two army groups. One army group was assigned the objective of capturing the oil fields in the Caucuses and elements of it even got to within 70 miles of cutting the Russian armies in the Caucuses off from the rest of Russia. The other army group was to protect the left flank of the first army group and was to push to the Volga. However; Hitler's got fixated on the capture of Stalingrad and diverted units and resources away from this first army group in order to help capture that city. We know how all this worked out.

Then in 1943, the Germans tried to restart their offensive operations on the Russian front by trying to encircle and kill of the salient in the Russian lines west of Kursk. We also know how that turned.

Now back to GS. In 1941 (as the axis player) I push on a broad front to capture what territory I can. In 1942, I focus my offensive might on ONE specific objective (e.g., Moscow). In 1943 I go on the defensive and only launch selected counterattack to destroy weak or overextended Russian units. In 1944, I hold my lines in Russia up to the point where the allied player is beginning to threaten major breakthroughs then I run like heck (i.e., retreat) west to save my units, get out of range of Russia air, reestablish a new defensive line and repeat all until the game ends (hopefully with an axis victory). My objective is a delaying action and I will sacrifice units here and there as necessary.
By the way, somewhere between mid 1943 to early 1944 is where I generally stop repairing axis air losses and accept allied air superiority.

NotaPacifist · Post by **NotaPacifist** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:28 pm

My problem is that by early winter 42' I'm on the defensive everywhere usually and the games end quickly thereafter. And usually I have too much of one resource that I end up not being able to use.

gerones · Post by **gerones** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:52 pm

It has been said in this thread that it is important to kill russian unit but may be you find an allied player that much takes care of his russian units so he doesn´t expose them to german attacks: then you won´t be able to kill that many russian units. So IMO there has to be a balance between russian destroyed units and russian territory gained so you weaken the russians both by destroying their army but also by decreasing signicantly russian production.

I think 1941 year is really decisive for how you will perform in Barbarossa in the following years: the further east you drive your german troops the better. You have to keep in mind that once in severe winter weather may be your troops will have to retreat a little so it is better to have a wide margin to do it. Germans historically reached Novgorod-Smolensk-Kursk-Rostov line in 1941. May be this historical Wehrmacht reached line could be taken as a reference to evaluate if you have performed well in Barbarossa or not. This way, you can continue attacking the russians and advancing to e.g. Moscow in late september/october instead of digging in for the winter but may be you will have to face an early severe winter in november with all its consequences. You can be excessively cautious so you can stop your advance prematurely, then you will risk the soviets almost driving you to the left bank of Dnepr river when severe winter arrives. The conclusion is that a balance is needed here.

For the rest I mostly agree with what it has been said in this thread about how to perform in Barbarossa in GS playing as the germans.

gerones · Post by **gerones** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:22 pm

NotaPacifist wrote:My problem is that by early winter 42' I'm on the defensive everywhere usually and the games end quickly thereafter. And usually I have too much of one resource that I end up not being able to use.

Russians are really able to go on the offensive early in winter 1942, as historically they did. This offensive is significantly helped by russian siberian units that suppose an extra 540 PP´s for the russians. No other country receives such number of free units in GS. This helps the russians much and allow them to launch partial winter offensives. Furthermore not having to buy these units the russians can focus in buying labs. So being at the defensive as the germans in early 1942 is something normal: they are hit by severe winter and they don´t receive any valuable free reinforcements until summer 1943 (SS Mech) to face this offensive. Usually it is worthy to retreat a little the german forces and to delay soviet forces advance with ZOC. If you have Manstein around this also helps much to recover from the initial loss of efficiency. If you are patient and save your forces from exposing them to soviet attacks you should be able to go on the offensive again with the germans in summer 1942.