Looking for a few good pioniere (pioneers) for extensive multiplayer testing.
Post here if interested. Be sure to leave information about time availability.
I'm in PST (USA Pacific Time Zone), GMT -7.
Multiplayer
Moderators: Slitherine Core, The Lordz, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design
Multiplayer
Last edited by Kerensky on Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
Multiplayer Interface looks like this:
To start off, what does 'paired game' mean? To me, that implies two games, a pair. What does that have to do with choosing a side?
Handicap scroll bar.
What does this do? What exact effect does moving the scroll bar one notch have? There needs to be information about what effect the handicap settings have.
Also, where does my opponent see my handicap setting? I issued two Poland challenges, one with unchanged handicap setting, and one with the handicap set all the way into the allied side. Where can you tell which scenario has an altered handicap setting?
Where can you tell if the challenge has been issued includes changes to supply, fog, or weather? Even if your opponent gets a display, you should be able to review your own challenges as well.
Oh, and some of the campaign scenarios are going to be absolutely hilarious(ly unbalanced) for multiplayer. Exactly how much feedback and information do you want in this area?
Lastly, I would hope that PzC doesn't suffer from WoW disease. That is, PVE affecting PVP and PVP affecting PVE. If you start changing the campaign scenarios to make better balanced multiplayer scenarios, I'm not exactly sure what I'm going to do, but it's not going to be pretty. PVE (single player against AI) and PVP (Multiplayer) should each be balanced and structured completely independently from one another.
To start off, what does 'paired game' mean? To me, that implies two games, a pair. What does that have to do with choosing a side?
Handicap scroll bar.
What does this do? What exact effect does moving the scroll bar one notch have? There needs to be information about what effect the handicap settings have.
Also, where does my opponent see my handicap setting? I issued two Poland challenges, one with unchanged handicap setting, and one with the handicap set all the way into the allied side. Where can you tell which scenario has an altered handicap setting?
Where can you tell if the challenge has been issued includes changes to supply, fog, or weather? Even if your opponent gets a display, you should be able to review your own challenges as well.
Oh, and some of the campaign scenarios are going to be absolutely hilarious(ly unbalanced) for multiplayer. Exactly how much feedback and information do you want in this area?
Lastly, I would hope that PzC doesn't suffer from WoW disease. That is, PVE affecting PVP and PVP affecting PVE. If you start changing the campaign scenarios to make better balanced multiplayer scenarios, I'm not exactly sure what I'm going to do, but it's not going to be pretty. PVE (single player against AI) and PVP (Multiplayer) should each be balanced and structured completely independently from one another.
Last edited by Kerensky on Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Also, there needs to be a 'refresh' button.
Currently, if you have 'current games' selected, and then click 'issue a challenge' the challenge list is blank, even though I have several challenges issued.
However, if you have 'accept a challenge' selected, and then click 'issue a challenge' the challenge list is properly displayed.
Oh, and canceling challenges does not properly refresh the list, you have to go back to 'accept a challenge' and then again to 'issue a challenge' to properly refresh the list.
Currently, if you have 'current games' selected, and then click 'issue a challenge' the challenge list is blank, even though I have several challenges issued.
However, if you have 'accept a challenge' selected, and then click 'issue a challenge' the challenge list is properly displayed.
Oh, and canceling challenges does not properly refresh the list, you have to go back to 'accept a challenge' and then again to 'issue a challenge' to properly refresh the list.
Paired game means that two games are created at once, in one you are axis, in the other one you are allies. So, you play both sides in parallel with the same opponent. Probably it is a bit easier to play unbalanced scenarios this way. If you are battered as allies, at least you can do the same with your opponent in the parallel game.
You can see handicap settings, as well as weather/supply/FoW on the accept challenge tab. Select a challenge in the list, and you'll see its params in the bottom box. Perhaps you should see this for your challenges too, but it is less critical, because probably you remember what you create.
We'll experiment with different approaches to balancing the scens for MP, but it is very likely that a separate version will be created for MP.
Refresh button: agree, miss that too.
Exact effects of handicap. The idea was to make it similar to difficulty, you don't know what exactly it does but it works. But for multiplayer it might not work well. Let's watch out for this aspect.
You can see handicap settings, as well as weather/supply/FoW on the accept challenge tab. Select a challenge in the list, and you'll see its params in the bottom box. Perhaps you should see this for your challenges too, but it is less critical, because probably you remember what you create.
We'll experiment with different approaches to balancing the scens for MP, but it is very likely that a separate version will be created for MP.
Refresh button: agree, miss that too.
Exact effects of handicap. The idea was to make it similar to difficulty, you don't know what exactly it does but it works.
But for multiplayer it might not work well. Let's watch out for this aspect.This is not really an attempt in anything, it is just that:Rudankort wrote: That has to be the most perverted attempt at balance I've ever heard of. "I'll completely destroy you in Norway with my mass infantry entrenched in rugged terrain, but it's okay, because you can do the exact same thing to me at the same time in another game where we switch sides."
I would completely remove 'paired' option, I can't see how it will be anything but trouble.
"I made the exact same purchases and moves you did in our paired game, but I still lost because of bad RNG."
- Many people seem to prefer to play in this mode in existing Slitherine games. Field of Glory even has an option to show only paired games in challenge list.
- Server supports this option
=> It is implemented on the PzC client side too
However, if we calculate the statistics of wins/losses, this scheme should indeed be rather balanced. No matter what scenario you pick, if you and your opponent are equal, you will probably score 1:1. If you are stronger, you can try to pull off 2:0 on him, and vice versa, a much stronger opponent could pull off 0:2 on you. All fair, isn't it?
You crazy Russian you, breaking your back for this game.Rudankort wrote:Sorry, this is the second time I edit a message instead of quoting it. A clear sign that I should go to bed. It is already 6:45 in the morning here, and I'm still reading the forum instead of having some sleep.
Sorry again. Over and out Rudankort.
I thought my post looked a little funny there, heh. Don't worry about it, get some rest.
So they plan to have some stuff, but it doesn't exist yet.Rudankort wrote:The biggest change in 0.93a is online multiplayer. It still lacks a few features, in particular exchange of messages between the players and replay of the opponent's previous turn. But we wanted to share what we have with you already, because network stuff usually requires a lot of time to stabilize. Everyone has a different connection type, firewall configuration, connection speed and a bunch of other things which can effect the game. If you experience any technical problems with online games, please let us know. Another important question is about multiplayer logic and flow. Are there scenarios where the game goes into plain wrong state, or which can be abused to get an advantage over the opponent? If yes, we are want to hear about this and fix them! And finally, I'm wondering if the new multiplayer is clear and intuitive enough. Of course, if you have experience with some other Slitherine games which use the same approach, everything should be pretty obvious. But if any of you guys are new to Slitherine's server-assisted PBEM++ multiplayer, I'm willing to hear about your experience. Was it immediately clear how to use multiplayer? If not, what specific aspects posed difficulty? What messages and other hints can we add to make it easier and more user friendly?
I will say so far, the system is pretty smooth, I didn't have any technical difficulties at all. Yet.
As for scenario balance:
I agree Low Countries is a nightmare for the Germans, it's completely unbalanced in favor of the allies, no question about it.
Allies have too much good equipment, more equipment, excellent terrain advantage, and ample prestige. The Germans have.... better fighters.
Poland is definitely in favor of the Germans though. I could have been a little smarter/sneakier about my cavalry and used them better to retake cities instead of throwing them away, but the time factor and superior German air force are pretty crushing. The Polish air units are pathetic, and the AA are just too expensive to buy more than one.
When I highlight my artillery unit, and the screen gets washed in red target reticules, it's game over.
When I highlight my artillery unit, and the screen gets washed in red target reticules, it's game over.
I've never played a Slitherine game before, nor used server assisted PBEM++ multiplayer. I figured it out simply enough. Push multiplayer, log in, access games and issue games. I can tell it's not a brand new system, there is precedent behind it. I don't really have anything bad to say, but I will compliment that it is nice to have multiplayer directly integrated into the program.Rudankort wrote:But if any of you guys are new to Slitherine's server-assisted PBEM++ multiplayer, I'm willing to hear about your experience. Was it immediately clear how to use multiplayer? If not, what specific aspects posed difficulty? What messages and other hints can we add to make it easier and more user friendly?
However: Where is hot seat play? Where is LAN play?
