GSv2.00 Axis Oil Levels

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:37 pm

Axis oil is a critical stat that we tracked and tweaked during beta testing. I thought now would be a good time to share them with the community. Please feel free to comment, provide your thoughts and experiences on this stat.

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:24 pm

Updated 4-22-2011

gerones · Post by **gerones** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:15 pm

About german oil question I think almost the same than regarding to german manpower: the game has been well balanced about german oil so if you use correctly your oil (so here there is also a subjective factor as in manpower question) you can by early 1944 have about 200-250 oil reserves. After changing oil consumption rule, I remember that I frecuently was out of oil by early 1943! So IMO, changes in oil consumption has been correct from both an historical and game balance points of view. No changes needed here.

schwerpunkt · Post by **schwerpunkt** » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:36 pm

In my current game as the axis, my oil situation looks very much like the Ronnie-Sean game, as I've spent most of 1944 below 200 oil (had 2 turns below 100!) so I wouldnt want to reduce German oil any further...

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Sat May 14, 2011 11:25 pm

Updated 5-14-2011

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:19 pm

Axis Oil Stats as of 6/4/2011

TotalerKrieg · Post by **TotalerKrieg** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:36 pm

Thanks for posting these data! It seems to me looking at the oil and manpower data that compared to GS 1.07 the Axis have a little more manpower and a little less oil in GS 2.0. Is this an accurate assessment?

I am looking forward to downloading 2.0, but am finishing up a 1.07 game so I will have to wait a little longer unfortunately...

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:36 am

TotalerKrieg wrote:Thanks for posting these data! It seems to me looking at the oil and manpower data that compared to GS 1.07 the Axis have a little more manpower and a little less oil in GS 2.0. Is this an accurate assessment?

I am looking forward to downloading 2.0, but am finishing up a 1.07 game so I will have to wait a little longer unfortunately...

Actually, we tweaked to increase both German manpower and axis oil.

PinkPanzer · Post by **PinkPanzer** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:40 am

rkr1958 wrote:Axis oil is a critical stat that we tracked and tweaked during beta testing. I thought now would be a good time to share them with the community. Please feel free to comment, provide your thoughts and experiences on this stat.

Playing GS 2.0 hotseat a bit:

The random convoy movement in GS 2.0 causes me to burn more axis oil. In GS 1.06 move a sub into the northeast hex(don't attack stay hidden) attack from the southeast hex with a bb, sub or nothing. Next turn convoy runs into the hidden sub and a 99% chance another attack without burning oil on movement for the sub in the northeast hex. It was extremely predictable convoy first hexmove was the northeast hex.

The whole retreat a couple hexes randomly for convoys then advance several hexes randomly for convoys in GS 2.0 is absurd. Never happened in real life on this hexscale.

Convoys should randomly advance to the northeast or southeast hex in GS 2.0 or otherwise give the axis more oil in GS 2.0 I think

richardsd · Post by **richardsd** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:39 am

Having Played a few games now I don't think the Axis should get more oil - they have more than enough.

Nearly everything else in the Mod helps them.

The biggest change in GS 2 IMHO is that the Allies can't just wait to see if the Axis makes any mistakes - just waiting till late 43 then attacking everywhere will be a guarenteed Allied loss.

PionUrpo · Post by **PionUrpo** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:03 am

GS 1.0 convoy movement predictability was leading to almost no PPs getting through for long time if done well by Axis player. Granted, new movement looks rather absurd on map but it's also absurd that a convoy stands still until entirely sunk. Best "looking" solution would probably be that, when hitting a sub, convoy takes damage and passes on. However limitations in the game-engine likely don't allow for such.

Anyway, in GS2.0 Axis has more than enough oil to offset random convoy movement.

gerones · Post by **gerones** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:15 pm

I agree that random convoy movement has been a good addition to the game: it was so easy to put a sub in the predicted convoy route and then to ambush the convoy.

BuddyGrant · Post by **BuddyGrant** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:02 pm

richardsd wrote:Having Played a few games now I don't think the Axis should get more oil - they have more than enough.

Nearly everything else in the Mod helps them.

Really?

richardsd · Post by **richardsd** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:22 am

These are some big helps for the Axis:

1. fractional oil usage by less than max strength units
2. lower ASW effectivenes by STR's
3. very weak Russia in 41 - efficiency loss is a killer
4. Para's - makes life even harder for Russia and Sealion a lot easier
5. late Russian entry - May 42, means if the Axis wants it can't be stopped from taking Egypt, Iraq, Persia

there are more, (e.g. SS units have their uses) and random convoy movement doesn't really hurt the Axis - good planning and the lower STR ASW mean's that the Allies would be foolish to play in the Atlantic early in the war

gerones · Post by **gerones** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:31 pm

richardsd wrote:These are some big helps for the Axis:

1. fractional oil usage by less than max strength units
2. lower ASW effectivenes by STR's
3. very weak Russia in 41 - efficiency loss is a killer
4. Para's - makes life even harder for Russia and Sealion a lot easier
5. late Russian entry - May 42, means if the Axis wants it can't be stopped from taking Egypt, Iraq, Persia

there are more, (e.g. SS units have their uses) and random convoy movement doesn't really hurt the Axis - good planning and the lower STR ASW mean's that the Allies would be foolish to play in the Atlantic early in the war

I agree about Battle of Atlantic scenario: right now the allies cannot afford to challenge german subs until they have reached high ASW levels for their strats and for their ships.

PinkPanzer · Post by **PinkPanzer** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:32 am

PionUrpo wrote:GS 1.0 convoy movement predictability was leading to almost no PPs getting through for long time if done well by Axis player. Granted, new movement looks rather absurd on map but it's also absurd that a convoy stands still until entirely sunk. Best "looking" solution would probably be that, when hitting a sub, convoy takes damage and passes on. However limitations in the game-engine likely don't allow for such.

Anyway, in GS2.0 Axis has more than enough oil to offset random convoy movement.

Uh after reading the GS 2.0 manual:

Visible subs may only be attacked by surface naval
units that begin their turn adjacent to the submarine.
Hidden subs will attack, and in turn be attacked, by
any enemy surface ship that runs into the hidden submarine during
movement. Once made visible only surface ships adjacent to the revealed
enemy submarine can attack it
This includes air attacks from CVs, which can only attack a visible sub if
the CV has NOT moved during the turn

War is more than a true chameleon that slightly adapts its characteristics to the given case. As a total phenomenon its dominant tendencies always make war a remarkable paradoxical trinity--composed of primordial violence, hatred, and enmity, which are to be regarded as a blind natural force; of the play of chance and probability within which the creative spirit is free to roam; and of its element of subordination, as an instrument of policy, which makes it subject to reason alone.

Clausewitz.

I wonder how an axis player's creative spirit within the play of chance and probability would be free to roam within that CEAW GS 2.0 rule.
I intuit the possibility of axis naval supremacy/superiority.

JimR · Post by **JimR** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:29 am

It's hard for the British alone to counter a determined and large German U-boat fleet for the first couple of years. British and American production -- DDs and strategic bombers -- must focus on securing the Atlantic. So for a time, the Germans will have an edge in the Atlantic war, if they devote enough resources to it.

PionUrpo · Post by **PionUrpo** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:32 pm

I wonder how an axis player's creative spirit within the play of chance and probability would be free to roam within that CEAW GS 2.0 rule.
I intuit the possibility of axis naval supremacy/superiority.

If Axis player wants to commit sizable assets to Atlantic there's little to be done except minimizing losses until US/USSR join. Convoy hunting alone won't win the war though, delaying Barbarossa until '42 and taking Britain and/or Med/Iraq is probably a better alternative.

I usually cap at 6 subs (in 2 groups) when aiming for '41 Barbarossa and unless all 6 are used together they're not overwhelming. 3 subs might take down a 10step low tech DD but that takes luck. As long as Allied player keeps the fleet tight (i.e. single ship can only be attacked from 1 direction without retaliation) it will be too costly. E.g With 6 DDs a single convoy can be escorted without huge risk unless Axis BBs are lurking around and those can be countered with RN BBs/CVs.

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:20 pm

PionUrpo wrote: E.g With 6 DDs a single convoy can be escorted without huge risk unless Axis BBs are lurking around and those can be countered with RN BBs/CVs.

And allied subs are very useful against German surface ships that wonder to far from safety.

richardsd · Post by **richardsd** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:48 pm

yes, but you don't have six DD's at the start!

GSv2.00 Axis Oil Levels

GSv2.00 Axis Oil Levels

Re: GSv2.00 Axis Oil Levels