where is the joy in this game

[soh]

is it just 10 or 11 of u play this game,when i roll the dice it never works out as shown(big time with the figthers)whats the deal with winter(so for 30-40/100 turns sit and wait,) so u can only move in summer 6 or 7 turns no fun ,and the axis fuel looks like it can only have 3 tanks some mech and 4 or 5 air any more its bye bye fuel,the bomers are a waste(i wonder what i can see in ussr) {oh thank god i have a bomber for recon, oh dear 2 lines of men in ussr},just as u fight your way past the blob winter again counter attack from ussr . axis need more fuel 50 per go??.then ussr gets some tac bombers game over it like a nightmare over and over again, i have played alot of hot s. games to understand the game(please do not talk about North Africa) ,then i look at the fourms for for good players,but no one can beat ussr and no one can get berlin just dead end,soon players are going to just spam tanks around berlin and win.to sum up the first part of game is fair the french are hard to crack b4 july/aug, North Africa- waste of time,why go into ussr for the oil fields,by the time u get to oil fields it time to fall back so why go?(and only get half their value)from 1942 to late 43 (12 turns?) oil should be 60-70 per turn and after the end of 43 the oil returns to 53 per turn because of allies bombing.because of the low oil subs,tanks,ships and bombers are cut out of the game very fast.no one wants to play a game that only half work do u? it not going to kill the game by adding more oil,the allies still have winter on their side for counter attacks and north Africa is so easy for the allies take and thats the back door to ussr .after this was done i could tell my friends about this great balanced game and maybe other poeple could tell their friends and so on.i do not have the time to master this game as it is, not many do.

[Pattonv2]

Dude,
Are you kidding me. This game is a lot fun. All the things you have mentioned can happen do happen. This game requires a lot of planning ahead strategy. Try playing a human thats where the fun and challenge really begins.

Good Luck

[soh]

Dude,
Are you kidding me. This game is a lot fun. All the things you have mentioned can happen do happen. This game requires a lot of planning ahead strategy. Try playing a human thats where the fun and challenge really begins.

are u kidding me --no
All the things you have mentioned can happen do happen--,ok u know what im talking about thanks

This game requires a lot of planning ahead strategy- what like pushing your army up to a river line hex and waiting for end of game(in ever game this happens) ,well that because no fuel to go anywhere. (i hope u can talk about that please) --u can only take 2 or 3 key points in ussr Leningrad,moscow,or the oil fields, from what i see in the forums,and the hot seat game i played any other city are really a waste of time and oil,because of the oil problem
leingrad is handy for extra pp and saves the poor finns (the hex fort in 2.0 will stop ussr from early rush thats cool )
moscow is a waste only if u plan to take omsk lol good luck with that
oil fields are really where axis need to go,when u get there it time to fall back to try lock down france or italy or spain
is it just the way poeple play or are ussr overpower no one wants to play a game with the same out come i have never played anyone but i can see the out come already with 50 oil per turn, this must change,axis down fall should be no menpower. when u look at ussr manpower is 20 per turn ,but axis have stronger tec, so it down to stoping the ussr blob.the low oil kills the game.i read the fourms and i can see that axis player is going no where

like, i have not played anyone yet and i will make a new post on how to put some life back into this game soon (no time now to sit and think) i like hex base game like Allied General its older but with more parts with less area to play on.more oil = more players.

[Plaid]

What do you want more oil for? Conquer the world? Its not Civilization, my friend...

[richardsd]

the game is easy to play, hard to master

also, it is designed to be a simulation so you can expect Germany to have oil and manpower issues and have to defend from 43 onwards

if you don't want want to play agame that is a simulation of WWII then this probably isn't the game for you

but if you think the German's are hard done by I would be happy to be an Axis opponent for you - I am pretty rubbish as the Aixs but I think I can 'suprise' you

[harrybanana]

Soh,

You are correct that the Germans have a big problem with oil. But it is not an insurmountable one and simulates historical fact. The Axis player has several possible ways of dealing with this oil shortage. One is to capture the Russian oil fields in the Caucus, another is to capture the Middle East oil and the final solution is to build a large technically advanced oil independent infantry/Mech army and don't even attempt to capture the oil fields. I have seen all of these methods used successfully.

If you wish to pursue the first option you should build up to a combination of 10 or so Armour and TAC (ie 6 armour and 4 TAC or vice versa) prior to Barbarossa. If used with care and competence this force (with a lot of Mech/infantry of course) should be able to capture the Caucus oil fields by the summer of 42 and hold same until mid 43 or later.

The 2nd option generally requires you to capture either Malta or Gibraltar so that you can put a larger force into North Africa without being penalized. This is a very risky campaign (as it was historically) but if successful can reap the Axis significant benefits.

The third option has the disadvantage of probably putting the Germans below the 75% manpower threshold sooner than they would like; but has the advantage that you can strike for Moscow in 42 without concern for oil.

What ever option you choose it is essential that you be aware of the oil problem from the beginning of the game. In other words don't move your armour if you can rail them. Use infantry, not armor to conquer Yugoslvia. Don't move your armour at all in Winter unless you have to.

By the way Winter, even on the North-East Front, is generally only 9 turns long. Which should give you 9 months of summer to campaign. Again this is historically accurate.

The game is a lot of fun once and balanced once you learn all the nuances.

[soh]

the game is easy to play, hard to master

also, it is designed to be a simulation so you can expect Germany to have oil and manpower issues and have to defend from 43 onwards

if you don't want want to play agame that is a simulation of WWII then this probably isn't the game for you

but if you think the German's are hard done by I would be happy to be an Axis opponent for you - I am pretty rubbish as the Aixs but I think I can 'suprise' you

--------------
u say " I am pretty rubbish as the Aixs" whys that? axis win by keeping berlin u know that? going too deep in ussr is in it self a bad move. why not just cut away half of ussr map and make the rest of europe bigger, half of ussr's map is not used u can see it on the fourms, i wonder if the other 19,529 memebers on this forum would say???mmm

[soh]

the game is easy to play, hard to master

also, it is designed to be a simulation so you can expect Germany to have oil and manpower issues and have to defend from 43 onwards

if you don't want want to play agame that is a simulation of WWII then this probably isn't the game for you

but if you think the German's are hard done by I would be happy to be an Axis opponent for you - I am pretty rubbish as the Aixs but I think I can 'suprise' you

so how long are u trying to master this game?

[soh]

What do you want more oil for? Conquer the world? Its not Civilization, my friend...

i wish the joy/fun of playing this hex game could go right to the last turn not to just 40 -50 turns which is only half way.

[soh]

Soh,

You are correct that the Germans have a big problem with oil. But it is not an insurmountable one and simulates historical fact. The Axis player has several possible ways of dealing with this oil shortage. One is to capture the Russian oil fields in the Caucus, another is to capture the Middle East oil and the final solution is to build a large technically advanced oil independent infantry/Mech army and don't even attempt to capture the oil fields. I have seen all of these methods used successfully.

If you wish to pursue the first option you should build up to a combination of 10 or so Armour and TAC (ie 6 armour and 4 TAC or vice versa) prior to Barbarossa. If used with care and competence this force (with a lot of Mech/infantry of course) should be able to capture the Caucus oil fields by the summer of 42 and hold same until mid 43 or later.

The 2nd option generally requires you to capture either Malta or Gibraltar so that you can put a larger force into North Africa without being penalized. This is a very risky campaign (as it was historically) but if successful can reap the Axis significant benefits.

The third option has the disadvantage of probably putting the Germans below the 75% manpower threshold sooner than they would like; but has the advantage that you can strike for Moscow in 42 without concern for oil.

What ever option you choose it is essential that you be aware of the oil problem from the beginning of the game. In other words don't move your armour if you can rail them. Use infantry, not armor to conquer Yugoslvia. Don't move your armour at all in Winter unless you have to.

By the way Winter, even on the North-East Front, is generally only 9 turns long. Which should give you 9 months of summer to campaign. Again this is historically accurate.

The game is a lot of fun once and balanced once you learn all the nuances.

i will talk about your points later no time now they look good dude bye for now

[AdmiralSarek]

I think the poster is partially right about the oil situation. I would like to see the German Navy use less oil (or none).
Why do you say?
They ran on diesel (subs and some of the bigger ships) and crude oil.
Tanks = petrol, planes = aviation fuel.

From all of my reading of world war tow I never say any mention of the German Navy having fuel issues.

But in this game you have to be vary careful with the navy to not burn fuel up, and with the 2.0 better convoy moving system it just gets harder.

Thoughts anyone?

[soh]

I think the poster is partially right about the oil situation. I would like to see the German Navy use less oil (or none).
Why do you say?
They ran on diesel (subs and some of the bigger ships) and crude oil.
Tanks = petrol, planes = aviation fuel.

From all of my reading of world war tow I never say any mention of the German Navy having fuel issues.

But in this game you have to be vary careful with the navy to not burn fuel up, and with the 2.0 better convoy moving system it just gets harder.

Thoughts anyone?

sorry no time now ,but very good point will talk with u soon about this

[Plaid]

All navy except CV uses only 1 oil point always. Its not serious at all, in 1942 entire kriegsmarine consumes less oil, that one panzer korps to make a move and attack.

[supermax]

is it just 10 or 11 of u play this game,when i roll the dice it never works out as shown(big time with the figthers)whats the deal with winter(so for 30-40/100 turns sit and wait,) so u can only move in summer 6 or 7 turns no fun ,and the axis fuel looks like it can only have 3 tanks some mech and 4 or 5 air any more its bye bye fuel,the bomers are a waste(i wonder what i can see in ussr) {oh thank god i have a bomber for recon, oh dear 2 lines of men in ussr},just as u fight your way past the blob winter again counter attack from ussr . axis need more fuel 50 per go??.then ussr gets some tac bombers game over it like a nightmare over and over again, i have played alot of hot s. games to understand the game(please do not talk about North Africa) ,then i look at the fourms for for good players,but no one can beat ussr and no one can get berlin just dead end,soon players are going to just spam tanks around berlin and win.to sum up the first part of game is fair the french are hard to crack b4 july/aug, North Africa- waste of time,why go into ussr for the oil fields,by the time u get to oil fields it time to fall back so why go?(and only get half their value)from 1942 to late 43 (12 turns?) oil should be 60-70 per turn and after the end of 43 the oil returns to 53 per turn because of allies bombing.because of the low oil subs,tanks,ships and bombers are cut out of the game very fast.no one wants to play a game that only half work do u? it not going to kill the game by adding more oil,the allies still have winter on their side for counter attacks and north Africa is so easy for the allies take and thats the back door to ussr .after this was done i could tell my friends about this great balanced game and maybe other poeple could tell their friends and so on.i do not have the time to master this game as it is, not many do.

Play against me i'll show you how to get Moscow or Berlin...

[trulster]

I think the poster is partially right about the oil situation. I would like to see the German Navy use less oil (or none).
Why do you say?
They ran on diesel (subs and some of the bigger ships) and crude oil.
Tanks = petrol, planes = aviation fuel.

From all of my reading of world war tow I never say any mention of the German Navy having fuel issues.

But in this game you have to be vary careful with the navy to not burn fuel up, and with the 2.0 better convoy moving system it just gets harder.

Thoughts anyone?

Maybe if the engine allows it, it should 0,5 oil per sub. Any Axis attempt to amass wolfpacks will mean a considerable oil use/turn, does not seem correct compared to the amounts used by planes and tanks.

[Plaid]

When playing axis I consider "joy" holding allies later in the game, with limited resources, poor manpower and oil troubles.
Actually I like this phase of the game more, then early blitzkriegs against weak forces. Its really fun, when you have 4 king tiger armours, which can obliterate entire allied offencive, but have oil to move only one of them, for me at least.

Also if oil is such a problem for you, you can simple turn it of, if its more fun for you to have no oil limits in operations.

[soh]

When playing axis I consider "joy" holding allies later in the game, with limited resources, poor manpower and oil troubles.
Actually I like this phase of the game more, then early blitzkriegs against weak forces. Its really fun, when you have 4 king tiger armours, which can obliterate entire allied offencive, but have oil to move only one of them, for me at least.

Also if oil is such a problem for you, you can simple turn it of, if its more fun for you to have no oil limits in operations.

---------------------
ok i was looking at the older mod for this game and u get a unreal amount of oil 500(i think) and the aar for this mod looks more alive with some axis players pushing deep into ussr and that makes the allies player better because the allies player is under pressure the whole time it too easy for the allies now. i know that axis win by holding on to berlin so whats the point of attacking ussr they can not be knocked out because of the oil after 1943 the game is so slow notting happens it sad because of the oil problem the game just stops like if u add up the pp,at some point it can reach axis 140-150 per turn and Italy 27 - 30, thats 140 + 27 = 167. ok put ussr 150-170 ,england 60 and usa 60 -70 = 270
axis = 167 pp tec heads
allies =270 pp the blob

this game should be all out war to the end, thats a game poeple will play

so out of the 19,588 members u say" when you have 4 king tiger armours, which can obliterate entire allied offencive, but have oil to move only one of them, for me at least".

for me this game is like chess but much bigger,so if someone says u cannot move your queen,knights,etc, half way into your match, do u think chess would be around today,
more oil = more of a game

[soh]

is it just 10 or 11 of u play this game,when i roll the dice it never works out as shown(big time with the figthers)whats the deal with winter(so for 30-40/100 turns sit and wait,) so u can only move in summer 6 or 7 turns no fun ,and the axis fuel looks like it can only have 3 tanks some mech and 4 or 5 air any more its bye bye fuel,the bomers are a waste(i wonder what i can see in ussr) {oh thank god i have a bomber for recon, oh dear 2 lines of men in ussr},just as u fight your way past the blob winter again counter attack from ussr . axis need more fuel 50 per go??.then ussr gets some tac bombers game over it like a nightmare over and over again, i have played alot of hot s. games to understand the game(please do not talk about North Africa) ,then i look at the fourms for for good players,but no one can beat ussr and no one can get berlin just dead end,soon players are going to just spam tanks around berlin and win.to sum up the first part of game is fair the french are hard to crack b4 july/aug, North Africa- waste of time,why go into ussr for the oil fields,by the time u get to oil fields it time to fall back so why go?(and only get half their value)from 1942 to late 43 (12 turns?) oil should be 60-70 per turn and after the end of 43 the oil returns to 53 per turn because of allies bombing.because of the low oil subs,tanks,ships and bombers are cut out of the game very fast.no one wants to play a game that only half work do u? it not going to kill the game by adding more oil,the allies still have winter on their side for counter attacks and north Africa is so easy for the allies take and thats the back door to ussr .after this was done i could tell my friends about this great balanced game and maybe other poeple could tell their friends and so on.i do not have the time to master this game as it is, not many do.

Play against me i'll show you how to get Moscow or Berlin...

its easy to get to moscow but can u knock ussr out of the war? and why not if u please?

[supermax]

is it just 10 or 11 of u play this game,when i roll the dice it never works out as shown(big time with the figthers)whats the deal with winter(so for 30-40/100 turns sit and wait,) so u can only move in summer 6 or 7 turns no fun ,and the axis fuel looks like it can only have 3 tanks some mech and 4 or 5 air any more its bye bye fuel,the bomers are a waste(i wonder what i can see in ussr) {oh thank god i have a bomber for recon, oh dear 2 lines of men in ussr},just as u fight your way past the blob winter again counter attack from ussr . axis need more fuel 50 per go??.then ussr gets some tac bombers game over it like a nightmare over and over again, i have played alot of hot s. games to understand the game(please do not talk about North Africa) ,then i look at the fourms for for good players,but no one can beat ussr and no one can get berlin just dead end,soon players are going to just spam tanks around berlin and win.to sum up the first part of game is fair the french are hard to crack b4 july/aug, North Africa- waste of time,why go into ussr for the oil fields,by the time u get to oil fields it time to fall back so why go?(and only get half their value)from 1942 to late 43 (12 turns?) oil should be 60-70 per turn and after the end of 43 the oil returns to 53 per turn because of allies bombing.because of the low oil subs,tanks,ships and bombers are cut out of the game very fast.no one wants to play a game that only half work do u? it not going to kill the game by adding more oil,the allies still have winter on their side for counter attacks and north Africa is so easy for the allies take and thats the back door to ussr .after this was done i could tell my friends about this great balanced game and maybe other poeple could tell their friends and so on.i do not have the time to master this game as it is, not many do.

Play against me i'll show you how to get Moscow or Berlin...

its easy to get to moscow but can u knock ussr out of the war? and why not if u please?

Well, we will just have to see in the ame against each other that we just started wont we?

By the way my first turn is sent, send yours back so i can start my world conquest

Look at this thread i already did it in GS 1.06.

viewtopic.php?t=16168

In essence it will really depend on what YOU do as Soviet player. In that game i was able to do it because the other player tried to retreat into the Hinterland. While a good russian strategy, he retreated a bit to far and a bit too fast. Then, he tried to play the manoeuver game against the german panzers. Tons of Russians were encircled. I also focused 100% of my PP to Russia till the end of 42. Oil was practically 0 when i was done also.

Ok, so i will try my best to knock the Russians out of the war in our game. A bit more difficult when the allied player knows what you are going to be doing from the first turn! But i'll try my best

[supermax]

When playing axis I consider "joy" holding allies later in the game, with limited resources, poor manpower and oil troubles.
Actually I like this phase of the game more, then early blitzkriegs against weak forces. Its really fun, when you have 4 king tiger armours, which can obliterate entire allied offencive, but have oil to move only one of them, for me at least.

Also if oil is such a problem for you, you can simple turn it of, if its more fun for you to have no oil limits in operations.

---------------------
ok i was looking at the older mod for this game and u get a unreal amount of oil 500(i think) and the aar for this mod looks more alive with some axis players pushing deep into ussr and that makes the allies player better because the allies player is under pressure the whole time it too easy for the allies now. i know that axis win by holding on to berlin so whats the point of attacking ussr they can not be knocked out because of the oil after 1943 the game is so slow notting happens it sad because of the oil problem the game just stops like if u add up the pp,at some point it can reach axis 140-150 per turn and Italy 27 - 30, thats 140 + 27 = 167. ok put ussr 150-170 ,england 60 and usa 60 -70 = 270
axis = 167 pp tec heads
allies =270 pp the blob

this game should be all out war to the end, thats a game poeple will play

so out of the 19,588 members u say" when you have 4 king tiger armours, which can obliterate entire allied offencive, but have oil to move only one of them, for me at least".

for me this game is like chess but much bigger,so if someone says u cannot move your queen,knights,etc, half way into your match, do u think chess would be around today,
more oil = more of a game

Soh, i'll ave to agree with you that the original game was more fun in the sense that at least the Axis could run an offensive till 1945. In the olds days, ive seen many games where it was decided in 1945 in front of the last russian capital in Siberia...

In the game before the mod (i stopped playing that because no one was anymore) the game STARTED to be interesting in 1943. Now, its almost always germany on the defensive. So far i've succeeded in playing 5-6 games out of 20 with GS without being on the defensive in 1943-1944 with the germans. My last ultimate victory agaisnt Phil Conca i was on the offensive still in 1944 (well, more like counter-offensive) in and around Moscow. It reminded me of the good olds days where me and Joerock we would battle it out in from of Omsk in 44 and 45. God it was fun to resist with the Russian in that desperate situation. This can almost not happen in the mod.

I think that you should stick to the regular game, it has all the features you are talking about. The MOD was designed to be more historic, and also certainly for players that like predictability. Let me give you a good example. In GS 1.01, i succeeded in invading north america through the fact that i knocked britain out of the war then inaded Canada before the americains entered into the war. You know what the developpers did? They changed the rules for it to happen never again. Now the rule is that if you invade Canada the US automatically enter the war. They also changed the weather zone. By doing this they made it practically impossible, thus rendering the game more predictable and fun for players that like a linear game with no surprises. So dont fear i totally understand your frustration, but hey, what can i say? These people put a tons of hours into modifying this game, so at least they should be entitled to like it for themselves should they not?

Is it not fun to have a "VICTORY" with the germans just by holding on to Berlin long enough? TO win the war in any long term definition, in my book the germans have to CONQUER the wolrd, not resit one more turn than they have historically! hahaha i am being sarcastic here. Of course i find it mediocre that players thrives for an axis minor victory by being the master of Berlin at end 1945!