CMT for part of a Battle Line

kal5056 · Post by **kal5056** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:59 pm

Can an IC that is in the center of a battle line add a Plus 3 to a CMT for a BG on the end of the Battle line if he is not physically with that BG and the BG that he is with is not making the Complex move.

IE:

XXOOHH
XXOOHH
_____IC

XX is a BG of which must CMT to expand in place. The IC is within 12 MU's of XX.
Does XX get a +2 or a +3 on the CMT roll?

Final formation is:
XXXXOOHH
_____OOHH
_______IC

Thank You
Gino
SMAC

david53 · Post by **david53** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:35 pm

kal5056 wrote:Can an IC that is in the center of a battle line add a Plus 3 to a CMT for a BG on the end of the Battle line if he is not physically with that BG and the BG that he is with is not making the Complex move.

IE:

XXOOHH
XXOOHH
_____IC

XX is a BG of which must CMT to expand in place. The IC is within 12 MU's of XX.
Does XX get a +2 or a +3 on the CMT roll?

Final formation is:
XXXXOOHH
_____OOHH
_______IC

Thank You
Gino
SMAC

He can only give a +3 to any BG he is actually in contact(+1 General,+2 for an IC) , in a battle line he would give +2 to those in range and only +3 to the one he is with. Hope this makes sencse to you.

Dave

kal5056 · Post by **kal5056** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:45 pm

That is how I undrstood it myself.

Now if the Battle line wished to wheel as a unit and requires a CMT to do so then the whole line tests at +3 (one test). Correct?
Thank You
Gino
SMAC

berthier · Post by **berthier** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:36 pm

Battle lines are limited to "advances" section of the moves table (p. 41 second column 1st bullet under simple and complex moves).

All moves in that section, become simple moves because a commander is with the battle line.

Any move then that would require a CMT would thus fall outside the "Advances" section and therefore would NOT be an allowable move for a battleline.

Christopher Anders

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:45 am

you have to do a full move so no short moves and no more than a single wheel, that counts as a simple move so no CMT is required for the battle line to make a wheel. Remember though that the whole line wheels, so you have to measure your wheel from one end of the full battle line as the stationary point to the other end of the battle line that would be the outside of the wheel. I think you will find that a battle line that attempts a wheel will not actually get very far when wheeling due to its massive frontage.

Polkovnik · Post by **Polkovnik** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:14 am

deadtorius wrote:you have to do a full move so no short moves

Eh ? Where do you get that from ?

deadtorius wrote:I think you will find that a battle line that attempts a wheel will not actually get very far when wheeling due to its massive frontage.

Yes, a wheel on a wide frontage will not turn much of an angle. But a battle line does not have to have a "massive" frontage. It might have a frontage of just two bases.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:00 am

Second move of a battle line has to be a full move or end when within 6 MU of an enemy, you can't make a short second move voluntarily. Technically if the second move would come up short the first part was the short move the second part was the full move.

True you can make a battle line out of 2 columns but how often do you see that? Personal experience has always been with Selucids so battle lines tend to be kind of long for my armies.

berthier · Post by **berthier** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:45 am

deadtorius wrote:Second move of a battle line has to be a full move or end when within 6 MU of an enemy, you can't make a short second move voluntarily. Technically if the second move would come up short the first part was the short move the second part was the full move.

True you can make a battle line out of 2 columns but how often do you see that? Personal experience has always been with Selucids so battle lines tend to be kind of long for my armies.

Nowhere on p. 75 does it say that a 2nd move for a battleline has to be a full move.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:50 am

deadtorius wrote:Second move of a battle line has to be a full move or end when within 6 MU of an enemy, you can't make a short second move voluntarily. Technically if the second move would come up short the first part was the short move the second part was the full move.

Where do you get that from in the rules?

expendablecinc · Post by **expendablecinc** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:42 am

nikgaukroger wrote:
deadtorius wrote:Second move of a battle line has to be a full move or end when within 6 MU of an enemy, you can't make a short second move voluntarily. Technically if the second move would come up short the first part was the short move the second part was the full move.

Where do you get that from in the rules?

Are you thinking of the constraints for a slide?
Or perhaps if within 6 inches and not having a general (difficult advance) and hence needing a CMT?

Polkovnik · Post by **Polkovnik** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:37 am

deadtorius wrote:Second move of a battle line has to be a full move .

No-one was talking about second moves, and even if they were this isn't correct.

Polkovnik · Post by **Polkovnik** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:38 am

nikgaukroger wrote:
deadtorius wrote:Second move of a battle line has to be a full move

Where do you get that from in the rules?

I seem to remember this being a rule also. Was it a rule at some stage in the beta testing ?

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:53 am

I have a feeling it may have been, or that there was a common misunderstanding of the 2nd move during testing that led to people thinking that it had to be a full move.

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:01 pm

And second moves can't end within 6MU of enemy. They cannot go withion 6MU of enemy, which is a different thing.

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:39 pm

kal5056 wrote:That is how I undrstood it myself.

Now if the Battle line wished to wheel as a unit and requires a CMT to do so then the whole line tests at +3 (one test). Correct?
Thank You
Gino
SMAC

Yes. The only time this will happen is if the battleline includes light artillery or battle wagons. These always require a CMT to move. If you fail the CMT the entire battleline is unable to move at all. (You can't amend the move to not include the BW or LArt once the move has been declared and dice have been thrown)

kal5056 · Post by **kal5056** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:49 pm

And to the meat of my original question:
If the IC is attached to the Battle line but not Light Artillery is is a Plus 2 or a Plus 3 on the CMT roll?
Thank You
Gino

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:58 am

kal5056 wrote:And to the meat of my original question:
If the IC is attached to the Battle line but not Light Artillery is is a Plus 2 or a Plus 3 on the CMT roll?
Thank You
Gino

If you are moving a battleline, there is no CMT to move unless the battleline contains battlewagons or light artillery, or contains fragmented troops not retiring from all enemy within 12 MUs. This is because a battleline is limited to the "advances" section of the maneuver table. The only advance that requires a CMT is a "difficult forward move", which is only complex for "other undrilled" without a general. A battleline advance requires a general, thus making all battleline advances simple moves. Battlewagons and light artillery always require a CMT to move, so when a battleline with these attempts to move a CMT is required. Similarly fragmented troops need to pass a CMT to make any move other than a simple move to retire away from all enemy within 12 MU.

A battleline only exists when multiple BGs are "advancing" as a single unit with a general attached. Otherwise each BG moves individually.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:03 am

If the IC is not attached to the LT ART they get the +2 for being in range of him but not the extra +1 since he is not with them.

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:35 am

A general counts as "with" the entire battleline that is attemptiong to move.
For example, a BG of poor undrilled HF, a BG of average undrilled Battlewagons, and a fragged BG of superior drilled MF, with an IC attached to the MF, is attempting to move toward the enemy. It would need to CMT using the undrilled rate, would be treated as poor (reroll 6s), and get an overall +1 to the roll ( -2 for a fragged BG, +3 for an IC "with" the battleline). If it passed it could move at the battlewagon move rate and no base of any BG could enter difficult going.

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:10 am

kal5056 wrote:And to the meat of my original question:
If the IC is attached to the Battle line but not Light Artillery is is a Plus 2 or a Plus 3 on the CMT roll?
Thank You
Gino

An IC attached to a battlegroup adds 3: +1 general in range, +1 Inspired commander in range, +1 general with BG.

As others have said, there is no occasion when a Battle LINE takes a CMT. You might have 4 undrilled HF BGs all touching and all in range of an IC. They can wheel/move as a whole battle line if you wish, because a general is with them, but they'd be all wheeling the same angle. If you wanted the BGs to move independently - say they all wanted to turn 90 degrees, you need to do that as individual BGs. Three of them would test at a +2, the one with the general attached on a +3.

CMT for part of a Battle Line

CMT for part of a Battle Line

Re: CMT for part of a Battle Line