Beta Map Pack 2 Available!

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:12 pm

Hi guys

a new beta map pack is available for download and testing. It includes all the previous maps but has a number of modifications.

* Road to Caen was too hard for Axis so now requires Allied player to control 4 VP's to give the German player a choice of where to defend.
* D-Day + 3 was too hard for Axis so now requires Allied player to control 8 VP's. Again gives the German player more options on where to defend.
* Street fighting was too hard for Axis so has the Marder replaced with a StugG, US airborn replaced with US infantry and a Chafee replaced with a Greyhound.
* Clash of Armour had too many allied tank destroyers so has 2 Hellcats & 2 M36's replaced with 4 standard Shermans.
* Meeting engagement has some rubble around tile 44,38 concerted to rough ground so it hides infantry correctly.
* Christmas Surprise. The reinforcements are now almost the same every time except that the order they appear is totally random. Added a StuG to German starting forces. Added bonuses to both sides.
* Buying Time. It now much more equally splits the reinforcements between the arrival locations. The routes around the back of the town have been closed down a little to force some of the combat through the town. Fixed the repeat message when the battle is complete but still have a crash on exiting a completed game which has not been tracked down yet.

We need feedback on whether maps are too hard or too easy. Are time limits ok or too short/long?

You can download the 5MB beta map pack from http://www.slitherine.com/files/bbc_ba/MULTIPLAYER.zip

You must extract this zip to My Docs\My Games\BBCBA. You know if it is in the right palce as you will be overwriting the current Multiplayer folder. The Beta maps will appear at the bottom of your list of missions when issuing new challenges all clearly marked with the BETA 2 tag. You shold complete all existing games on the original Beta map pack and then delete the Beta map pack folders.

DO NOT EXTRACT THIS ZIP FILE TO PROGRAM FILES\SLITHERINE\BATTLEFIELD ACADEMY!

NEVER EXTRACT ANY FILES TO PROGRAM FILES!

Acererak · Post by **Acererak** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:08 pm

Hmm...I think the main problem with Road to Caen was not just the flags required but the assortment of units. Most games of the Tournament in this map are ending with total wipe out of german forces, so that means 3 or 4 flags wont make a difference. Two Marders and a Stug against 4 Shermans is the problem imo. Maybe make it Two Stugs and a Marder? Or even something a bit better for Axis?

Control of 8 flags in D-Day+3 means controlling de whole map, if i dont recall wrong...I would definitely push the fight back to the city in the rear of german forces, but going for the whole map might unbalance it for Alles now.

Rest of changes seem right to me, so will be looking forward to try them and let you know!

Thanks Ian!

hidde · Post by **hidde** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:29 pm

Street fighting was too hard for Axis so has the Marder replaced with a StugG, US airborn replaced with US infantry and a Chafee replaced with a Greyhound.

This is from an earlier thread:

I've taken the M8's away from the Allies for this battle and made a few other tweaks to give the Germans more AT capability. A new version will be available soon.

Have both these changes been done?
I really like this scenario and it was the M8's I saw as the main problem. Are they gone or is it only the changes mentioned in the first quote that apply?

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:09 pm

Road to Caen will play very differently if teh German player does not have to come forwards to fight for the middle VP. Give it a try and see.

Street fighting felt very one sided as the Germans had no armour in the games. I played and got anihilated by the US tanks - I had nothign that could hurt them. We may have gone too far but thats hat the beta testing is for. I've had almost no feedback on the play balance so am going on my own experiences mostly.

If you think a mission is balanced we want to know that too!

Acererak · Post by **Acererak** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:23 pm

iainmcneil wrote:Road to Caen will play very differently if teh German player does not have to come forwards to fight for the middle VP. Give it a try and see.

I actually won my tournament game using that strategy. Held back on the hill around the bunker with the 75mm tearing down to pieces those pesky Shermans, then pushed forward with some infantry left and Armored Vehicles and managed to win the scenario. I had a very smart opponent but I think i got some lucky shots though. Not sure if that strategy would work again. Even so, i still think the 75mm, Two Marders and One Stug is not enough to present a decent armored defense.

iainmcneil wrote:Street fighting felt very one sided as the Germans had no armour in the games. I played and got anihilated by the US tanks - I had nothign that could hurt them. We may have gone too far but thats hat the beta testing is for. I've had almost no feedback on the play balance so am going on my own experiences mostly.

I agree those Allied armor are a bit too much, even with all the Panzerfaust at disposal. I like you gave it a more infantry oriented turn as thats the main focus of that scenario. Winning as Axis was again quite hard to achieve. Let´s see now.

iainmcneil wrote:If you think a mission is balanced we want to know that too!

The first Two Beta Bulge Missions are very well balanced in my opinion. Played a few games and won as both sides. Also, Race for the Town is a brilliant masterpiece and very well balanced and fun to play. Extremely challenging for Allies, but definitely winnable.

shawnt63 · Post by **shawnt63** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:29 pm

Just tried the buying time beta 2 and as soon as the game starts with 16 turns it says "Bridge is held this will slow down the Germans".

Anyone else run into this or just me? Could be something took a hiccup in the last iteration?

Acererak · Post by **Acererak** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 1:26 am

Also happened to me...but since i am the one on the other side of the table i guess it does not count, hehe.

There is definitely some issue with this mesage as I still have one game pending in Buying Time Beta 1 for this reason

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:33 am

I played that to completion in hotstea. I wonder if its a hotseat issue. If anyone else has played it let me know.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:01 pm

Any feedback on the beta 2 set of maps?

The only known issue I have is the crash at the end of Buying Time.

Are there any balance issues?

Acererak · Post by **Acererak** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:29 pm

Hi Ian

Balance issues i found at least in :

1. Street Fight (Axis assortment of units should still be revised. Too many useless Panzerfausts now)

2. Buying Time (Randomness can lead to impossible for Axis if you just get infantry units at the begining. I really think some more turns are necesary to wait to amass a decent assaulting force, as well as some extra support (arty/Air) for Axis)

3. Along the Road (Number of Flags necesary to win make it very hard for Allies, since they have to risk their armor more than axis to get their last one, and that leads to impossible win if proper defense by Axis)

4. Road to Caen (I would still change a Marder for a one more Stug, at least.)

Those are the most obvious i remember by memory now...

Cheers

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:57 pm

Thanks - any more thoughts would be good even if they are just to agree on these points.

shawnt63 · Post by **shawnt63** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:53 pm

I think Acererak gave a very good summation.

Acererak · Post by **Acererak** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:14 am

Some more feedback

We are playing the unofficial forum tournament, second round already, and using D-Day+3 Beta 2 for the round, everyone playing it from both sides.

I think we ALL (8 players) have been smashed playing as Axis, so definitely the scenario needs some rebalancing. Flags were not the issue, as Allies just crush to pieces all Axis units every time. So i believe some more power for the Axis is a must.

I suggest adding a Panther/Tiger or two so the Axis player can fix the Allied thrust at least in one flank, and then choose the best defensive positions to try to win the scenario. To rebalance things and not make it too hard for Allies this way, i would probably concede at least one less flag for them as objective to win the scenario (from 8 to 7)

My two cents

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:05 am

Thanks - when I last played it the Allies died horribly coming forwards against my Stugs & Pz IV's, but I may have been lucky!

I dont really want to beef up the Germans if we can avoid it. Maybe instead add a tighter time line for the Allies to force them to be more agressive and take more risks? The aim is that the Germans are hanging on, but should lose eventually.

Acererak · Post by **Acererak** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:21 pm

iainmcneil wrote:The aim is that the Germans are hanging on, but should lose eventually.

Well, you hit the mark then. They surely lose in the end

But i see your point, and your suggestion of decreasing the time limit is interesting as maybe with some delay tactics the axis could have a chance. Risky, and hard to tell how many turns would mean the scenario is balanced enough. But worth the try

I have won with the germans a couple times though, but either because of very risky (probably inexperienced) tactics of my opponent, or pure lucky shots at the right time in the right place.

As i said, 8 people playing the scenario (and experienced in MP as well) and losing "en masse", seems like an issue to me. I would like to listen to more opinions in any case, as well, from fellow gamers.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:38 pm

Ok here are the final changes that will be rolled in to the first official release. We can always tweak them later if they are not perfect.

* D-Day+3 - One extra 75mm AT gun for Germans. 2 turns less for Allies to win.
* Road to Caen - one extra Panzershreck for Germans. Adjusted starting positions of units so Germans forward troops cannot be hit turn 1 allowing them to deploy forwards or back.
* Along the Road. Moved 2 of the central VP markers slightly close to the Allies. Shoudl just swing the balance slightly and make them more contenstable.
* Christmas surprise. Given Germans 2 more turns to win.
* Street Fighting. Changed a German Panzershreck for Flamethrower.

Acererak · Post by **Acererak** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:53 pm

iainmcneil wrote:Ok here are the final changes that will be rolled in to the first official release. We can always tweak them later if they are not perfect.

* D-Day+3 - One extra 75mm AT gun for Germans. 2 turns less for Allies to win.
* Road to Caen - one extra Panzershreck for Germans. Adjusted starting positions of units so Germans forward troops cannot be hit turn 1 allowing them to deploy forwards or back.
* Along the Road. Moved 2 of the central VP markers slightly close to the Allies. Shoudl just swing the balance slightly and make them more contenstable.
* Christmas surprise. Given Germans 2 more turns to win.
* Street Fighting. Changed a German Panzershreck for Flamethrower.

Nice changes Ian, and i believe in the right direction for rebalancing.

D-Day+3, any chance you could make it 5 less turns for Allies at least? I think we all pretty much had like 10 turns left or so for allies to roam around with not much to do in most games we played. I like the idea of making it more of a rush for them, but 2 turns is not going to make a big difference imho.

And honestly think that Buying time needs those extra turns (probably more than 2 as well) much more than Christmas Surpirse...

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:20 pm

Ok, I'll reduce turn by 5 for D-Day +3 and up turns by 2 in Buying Time.

No more changes now till after this release!

Acererak · Post by **Acererak** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:01 pm

iainmcneil wrote: No more changes now till after this release!

Any hints on when would that be?

Cheers

Acererak · Post by **Acererak** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:13 pm

Acererak wrote:
iainmcneil wrote: No more changes now till after this release!
Any hints on when would that be?

Cheers

Ooops..sorry. Just read the note on the webpage and it says there that the MP maps have already been updated. Have not yet updated myself and since i just read the sticky with the new patch features in the forums, i did not know you guys already did the job!

Nonetheless...why not point this out in that patch forum thread?