Charging and Defending the Camp

[Hamilcar]

Excuse me if this has been answered already; I couldn't find it in the forums. Anyway, last week, a unit of LH moved past a unit of my Cav (within intercept charge range) and looted my baggage camp. I argued that the camp, although free, is a unit and, therefore, I was entitled to an intercept charge. My opponent argued that a BC is terrain. Just so I know if it happens again: who is correct? Do I get an intercept vs someone moving to loot my camp?

[kal5056]

No,
You move into (Take) the camp in the movement phase not the charge phase so there is no intercept.
If the LH were within 2 MU's of your Cav they do have to obey the rules pertaining to the ZOI however.

Gino
SMAC

[Hamilcar]

No, they were about 3 1/2 MU away. How, then, does one defend one's camp, other than buying a fortified camp? Enemy BGs, especially LH, can move by and loot it before you can react.

[kal5056]

I am the last one to give tactical advice if you look at my rankings but it has a great deal to do with your use of terrain and the deployment of your army.

I missle armed battle group of say 4 or 6 MF bow could be effective in providing support to your lines and responding to light troops that try such a move around your flanks.

Remember too that you can put your Camp on a steep hill. This will slow down LH and a BG of LF Bow on the same hill will have a fighting chance of keeping them away.

Gino
SMAC

[david53]

No, they were about 3 1/2 MU away. How, then, does one defend one's camp, other than buying a fortified camp? Enemy BGs, especially LH, can move by and loot it before you can react.

I never defend my camp sometimes at deployment I place it on one flank and don't place any troops there using it to draw troops away from my main deployment yes you lose the camp but adds a better chance that you win elesewhere. I use Cavalry/LH a lot so never feel the need to defend it I mostly outnumber the opponents LH which is used mainly to take the camp and 1 unit of enemy LH sent of to get my camp will more than likely not get past my LH. Don't defend it if you use poor troops your just adding another 2 points that you may lose. What I would do is place it in the middle of your long edge and just forget about it attack as you would, otherwise your just pinned down to stay close to your camp. Just my ideas mind you.

[SirGarnet]

Getting in its way and staying in its way is the trick and difficulty.

One take is that a BG spending its time looping round to sack and loot your camp is essentially out of the action for most of the game, and troops guarding it likewise make no real contribution to the battle, so just use the one BG edge to fight the battle.

[philqw78]

No, they were about 3 1/2 MU away. How, then, does one defend one's camp, other than buying a fortified camp? Enemy BGs, especially LH, can move by and loot it before you can react.

Plan ahead.

[hammy]

If you want to defend your camp from pesky roaming light horse you either need to get said light horse into your restricted zone before they can wander to the camp or you could just spend 16 points on a BG of 8 mob. They will do a more than adequate job of keeping light horse from one side of your camp at least.

[deadtorius]

8 BG Mob would likely be able to stretch out and cover more than the camp size so yes they would be your best camp defenders

[kal5056]

8 BG Mob would likely be able to stretch out and cover more than the camp size so yes they would be your best camp defenders

Against Light troops only.
If you use mob to protect the camp and non-skirmishers attack it you are likely giving the opponent 4 points instead of 2.

Gino
SMAC

[dave_r]

If you want to defend your camp from pesky roaming light horse you either need to get said light horse into your restricted zone before they can wander to the camp or you could just spend 16 points on a BG of 8 mob. They will do a more than adequate job of keeping light horse from one side of your camp at least.

This tactic will ensure that instead of losing two attrition points when an enemy BG get's to your camp you will lose four attrition points.

[grahambriggs]

If you want to defend your camp from pesky roaming light horse you either need to get said light horse into your restricted zone before they can wander to the camp or you could just spend 16 points on a BG of 8 mob. They will do a more than adequate job of keeping light horse from one side of your camp at least.

This tactic will ensure that instead of losing two attrition points when an enemy BG get's to your camp you will lose four attrition points.

Against more than one BG of LH yes, but they're fine against a single BG of 4 LH.

[hammy]

If you want to defend your camp from pesky roaming light horse you either need to get said light horse into your restricted zone before they can wander to the camp or you could just spend 16 points on a BG of 8 mob. They will do a more than adequate job of keeping light horse from one side of your camp at least.

This tactic will ensure that instead of losing two attrition points when an enemy BG get's to your camp you will lose four attrition points.

Against more than one BG of LH yes, but they're fine against a single BG of 4 LH.

Indeed. As I said in the initial post If you want to defend your camp from pesky roaming light horse

Anything much more serious than 4 light horse might be an issue but I am struggling to see how even with Dave's dice 4 light horse can fight their way through 8 mob.

[nikgaukroger]

This tactic will ensure that instead of losing two attrition points when an enemy BG get's to your camp you will lose four attrition points.

Against more than one BG of LH yes, but they're fine against a single BG of 4 LH.

Indeed. As I said in the initial post If you want to defend your camp from pesky roaming light horse

Anything much more serious than 4 light horse might be an issue but I am struggling to see how even with Dave's dice 4 light horse can fight their way through 8 mob.

Manoeuvre around the Mob to take the camp, hope the Mob never pass a CMT to turn, charge the Mob in the flank/rear, hope to win the combat, hope the Mob double drop, beat them in the Melee phase.

Simples

[philqw78]

Manoeuvre around the Mob to take the camp, hope the Mob never pass a CMT to turn, charge the Mob in the flank/rear, hope to win the combat, hope the Mob double drop, beat them in the Melee phase.

Simples

The mob will generally be hitting on 5's, re-roll any 6's, they will take a minus for losing to mounted and within 6 MU of table edge as well for any CMT. You need to be bravewith the LH but they have a decent chance if the initial contact is in the flank. If they don't disrupt the Mob they can break off and run away. And they are very unlikely to lose 2 bases before breaking off. 4 dice v's 2 for the initial mele could be scary, but the LH should not be there for the Mob to put in an overlap in the mob's turn.

[dave_r]

Nik and Phil have somewhat stolen my thunder, but the LH are at + in impact and + in melee (assuming they are bow swordsmen)

With four dice on average, the Mob should get 1 hit, there is a 50/50 possibility that this will be re-rolled, if it is re-rolled then they will probably get zero hits. The Light Horse will get 1 hit on average.

The mob will lose and will likely disrupt.

The same thing will happen in combat and the Mob will Fragment. They will then break in the next melee phase.

If it goes pear shaped for the light horse they break off and wait around till next turn...

[grahambriggs]

Your stats must be different to mine - I make it 1 hit each at impact (assuming head on) then mob numbers tip the balance and hold up the LH until proper troops can help. Granted it's a risk - you'd ideally want something a bit tougher than the mob or have them with a Light Spear or similar.

I rarely find it worth defending the baggage against very mobile enemy - if one BG of LH can get there two often can and then that's real trouble. At least looters aren't shooting at my army.

[dave_r]

Most statisticians fail to recognise that FoG is an integer based game.

For instance, for the example above, if you work through the stats for the mob you see you get 1.33 hits at impact, but some of these will be re-rolled, ending in getting 1.11 hits at impact.

In the real world, you can't get 1.33 hits, therefore you will get one. Exactly 50% of these will have to be re-rolled meaning it is about 50-50.

[grahambriggs]

Most statisticians fail to recognise that FoG is an integer based game.

For instance, for the example above, if you work through the stats for the mob you see you get 1.33 hits at impact, but some of these will be re-rolled, ending in getting 1.11 hits at impact.

In the real world, you can't get 1.33 hits, therefore you will get one. Exactly 50% of these will have to be re-rolled meaning it is about 50-50.

Ooo look at you, all Hammy-tastic!

Erm, don't think so. Poor troops who are a POA down get dice that will hit 8 times in 36. i.e. on average 36 die rolls will come up with six 5s and six 6s. Rerolling the six 6s should come up with a 5 and a 6, making 8 hits total - and 28 misses.

Four dice missing 28/36 times will miss all 4 dice 37% of the time. Of these the LH sometimes miss too, reducing their chances of beating the mob 1-0 or 2-0 to 27%. There'll be some 2-1s in there too so I'd reckon perhaps a 1 in 3 chance of the LH winning the impact. Then assuming the mob disrupt it's another 1 in 3 to win the melee at 2 dice vs 4.

Granted, if nothing else is around it's difficult for the LH to get in trouble themselves so I guess it's worth a go with bow/sword types.

[ethan]

Yeah, because of the large number of rolls and the integer nature of FoG you really need to monte carlo anything you want a good answer to...