Long Bows

[garth]

Just thinking of making a War of the roses army but 4-6 inches for a long bow does seem very short. Am I reading the rules right because for a bow (As I say) this range seems tiny

[timmy1]

Garth, you are reading the rules correctly. Most things will get shot at 4 times with this range and Longbows hurt most targets.

[david53]

Just thinking of making a War of the roses army but 4-6 inches for a long bow does seem very short. Am I reading the rules right because for a bow (As I say) this range seems tiny

Mounted might make it in one or two all depending on moves up to 6mu.

Remember medium foot move only 4mu or 6mu and 4mu seems okey to me.

[Polkovnik]

Remember these rules are designed to represent large scale battles. So the 6MU maximum range probably represents about 200 yards.

[deadtorius]

Don't forget they move up you shoot them, your turn you shoot them, their turn they move up and you shoot them or they close on you and they are much happier now.

Seems short range until you are the one on the receiving end.

[rbodleyscott]

Just thinking of making a War of the roses army but 4-6 inches for a long bow does seem very short. Am I reading the rules right because for a bow (As I say) this range seems tiny

Many people coming from other rules have thought this, but with each base representing approximately 250 men, the shooting ranges are correct for the (implicit) ground scale.

Rest assured that the rules are balanced so that longbows are indeed effective despite this.

[Grandviceroy2018]

i beg to differ. longbows are not very effective in this game. i do not have any problems with the other firing mechanisms and points of advantage etc with other weapons, as if you can manage to get enough fire on a unit you might just actually kill something -- or, more importantly, cause it to crack a level in cohesion.

longbows should be in a special category; they should either have more dice, or cause a negative to the cohesion check, or have a modifier to the kill die.... both in the miniatures game and the pc game, a line of longbows, even behind stakes, is a line waiting to die even from a head on attack.

by the way, i am not saying this because i use longbows...just the opposite. after years of facing machinegun like long bows in some rules, i find that in FOG i can pretty much just go straight in at them....something i would and could never do and live in any other rules i can think of.

ps: i do love the game, and have played over 60 battles in the two years i have been doing it in miniature (mostly with biblical and classical armies, although we have done a fair share of medieval....

[hammy]

Longbows should be in a special category; they should either have more dice, or cause a negative to the cohesion check, or have a modifier to the kill die.... both in the miniatures game and the pc game, a line of longbows, even behind stakes, is a line waiting to die even from a head on attack.

But longbows do have their own category. They get the best shooting POA of any missile weapon against any target.

Other rules might make longbow a medieval tactical nuclear weapon but there is little evidence to suggest that they were quite that effective.

Which historical battles would you suggest indicate that longbows inflicted huge levels of casualties compared to other types of bow against lesser armoured targets?

[hazelbark]

a line of longbows, even behind stakes, is a line waiting to die even from a head on attack.

Could you give us a couple examples? I find longbow about the best missile troops in the game. Maybe jannisaries are better, but you can't get enough of them.

I am not saying Longbow are super powerful, but they hold up reasonable well.

[Polkovnik]

i beg to differ. longbows are not very effective in this game. ......

Well you've already started another topic saying the same thing, which now has three pages of posts and not a single response from you. So rather than just repeating yourself on this topic, why don't you actually respond to some of the points made on the other one ?

[david53]

i beg to differ. longbows are not very effective in this game.

Please give an example of this? against Knights you hit on fours and more than likely get two turns of shooting. Any other extra for them and everyone will take a longbow army on to the table.

I for one think Longbow are strong enough as do the rules writers in your other thread you started on Longbows?

[elysiumsolutions@fsmail.n]

Could you give us a couple examples? I find longbow about the best missile troops in the game. Maybe jannisaries are better, but you can't get enough of them.

I agree Longbows are about the best missile troops in the game.

Taking away the POA of armoured/ heavily armoured troops makes the longbow definitely the best missile weapon. The original posters concern therefore seems to be that they are not also classified as Superior. The superior performance of the longbow compared to the bow vs armour has already been taken care of by the weapon POAs. For bowmen having a sword indicates superior melee ability. They are even classed as drilled.
I think their overall performance is well modelled in FOG.

As for the classification of Christian Nubian bows as Superior they are also Unprotected and Undrilled and don't have a sword. Having beaten the arabs due to their superior archers you have got to make them Superior.

Also in my opinion Immortals are better than Jannisaries. Armoured is better than protected, sword as it helps vs shooting and in combat. It is close as when the immortals face something that trumps their armour Heavily Armoured, Hvy weapon, chariots or Elephants and they are in trouble but swords don't always count either and against everyone but longbows the 5 to hit vs shooting is very good.

Paul Longmore

[Legionbuilder]

As an archer - I would disagree that the range is correct - but as a gamer I think longbows are terrific

The famous english long bow could easily launch arrows out to 300+ yards but they were probably most effective at 200 yards and closer sp in the end I think the FOG guru's got it correct.

[philqw78]

As an archer - I would disagree that the range is correct - but as a gamer I think longbows are terrific

The famous english long bow could easily launch arrows out to 300+ yards but they were probably most effective at 200 yards and closer sp in the end I think the FOG guru's got it correct.

Effective range with an assault rifle is 300m. I very much doubt longbows are quite that effective even if the arrows go that far.

[Jilu]

i would like to see the arrow pierce armour at 300 meters..distance does take away the impact strenght

[Legionbuilder]

When I was a teenager - I did put an arrow through the roof of my uncles caddy during a family reunion at about 300 yards. Of course that is not armor per say.

[Phaze_of_the_Moon]

As an archer - I would disagree that the range is correct - but as a gamer I think longbows are terrific

The famous english long bow could easily launch arrows out to 300+ yards but they were probably most effective at 200 yards and closer sp in the end I think the FOG guru's got it correct.

Effective range with an assault rifle is 300m. I very much doubt longbows are quite that effective even if the arrows go that far.

The limit on the range of an assault rifle is only in that it is very difficult to hit an aware (moving eratically, using cover) target beyond 300m, the rounds they fire are lethal at two to three times that range (and dangerous farther than that) it just takes a belt fed machine gun or a sniper.

[philqw78]

The limit on the range of an assault rifle is only in that it is very difficult to hit an aware (moving eratically, using cover) target beyond 300m.

Its difficult to see anything further than right next to you when you are being shot at. Most people can't hit a stationary target beyond 300m. (probably just as many won't)

[Phaze_of_the_Moon]

The limit on the range of an assault rifle is only in that it is very difficult to hit an aware (moving eratically, using cover) target beyond 300m.

Its difficult to see anything further than right next to you when you are being shot at. Most people can't hit a stationary target beyond 300m. (probably just as many won't)

Every soldier I've ever met could hit a stationary target at 300m virtually 100% of the time. Hell I could do it in my youth and I am almost legally blind. Maybe some third world conscript with an AK-47 older than he is could miss.

[philqw78]

Every soldier I've ever met could hit a stationary target at 300m virtually 100% of the time. Hell I could do it in my youth and I am almost legally blind. Maybe some third world conscript with an AK-47 older than he is could miss.

Did you see them do it or were you just listening to squaddies talk sh*t as usual. Or were they shooting at barn doors/cows arses with banjos