This section of the forum has been pretty quiet, so myself and Dan(historian) have decided to do another AAR, this time using 600pt Storm of Arrows armies. I have the Later Medieval French and Dan will be playing the Ordonnance Burgundians. Here's the list I will be using -
Later Medieval French (600pts)
Inspired Commander - Men-at-arms bodyguard. 60pts
Field Commander - Men-at-arms bodyguard. 35pts
Troop Commander - Men-at-arms bodyguard. 25pts
13 Men-at-arms - Undrilled, Heavily Armoured, Lance, Swordsmen, Average, Knights. 195pts
8 Crossbowmen - Undrilled, Protected, Crossbow, Average, Medium Foot. 48pts
4 Peasant Levies - Poor, Mob. 8pts
2 Mercenary Men-at-arms - Drilled, Heavily Armoured, Lance, Swordsmen, Average, Knights. 36pts
3 Spanish Crossbowmen - Undrilled, Unprotected, Crossbow, Average, Light Foot. 15pts
2 Francs Archers - Undrilled, Unprotected, Longbow, Poor, Medium Foot. 8pts
4 Voulgiers - Drilled, Armoured, Heavy Weapon, Average, Heavy Foot. 40pts
Scottish Ally
Field Commander - Scottish lesser men-at-arms bodyguard. 30pts
4 Scottish lesser men-at-arms - Undrilled, Armoured, Heavy Weapon, Average, Heavy Foot. 36pts
8 Scottish Archers - Undrilled, Protected, Longbow, Swordsmen, Average, Medium Foot. 64pts
The average Knights have the option to dismount at setup as Undrilled, Heavily Armoured, Heavy Weapon, Superior, Heavy Foot. Which can be pretty useful if the terrain really doesn't suit Knights.
I've decided to take average Knights as I want to maximise the numbers I can take, the Knights are the only real offensive option I have so I'm going to have to keep them out of harms way, until I can get them within charging distance of the enemy. Good open terrain is going to be key to being able to move the Knights into good attacking positions.
The French list really lacks skirmishers, so the medium foot Crossbows and Longbows are going to have to provide the front line, screening the Knights from the enemy and hopefully causing some disruption to the enemy formations with their missile fire, they also make pretty useful rough terrain troops. The Voulgiers and Scottish lesser men-at-arms will either provide a line for the Knights to operate around or directly support the Knights once they manage to close with the enemy.
Not sure what Dan's Burgundians are going to consist of, the Ordonnance Burgundians seem to have a good mix of options, not faced much artillery yet so wether he takes all the artillery the Burgundians can have or not will be interesting to see. He may well take the Yorkist ally to increase the amount of Longbowmen he can field.
Will have to wait until I see what the battlefield looks like before coming up with a cunning(hopefully!!) plan...
Later Medieval French vs Ordonnance Burgundian AAR
Moderators: Slitherine Core, FoG PC Moderator, NewRoSoft
Yuck, not the battlefield I was hoping for!! Majority of the map is covered with steep hills, which is going to make good use of the Knights very difficult. I will have to consider dismounting some or all of the Knights, though heavy foot don't fare any better in the rough... The right side of the map looks like my best bet with the only open area that my Knights can make good use of, Dan will probably realise this and have this area well covered with troops I suspect. Their is a reasonable area of open ground on top of the plateau in the centre of the battlefield, if I can get their before it's closed off by the enemy it could prove an important objective to hold.
The French deployment
Here's how I have deployed for the battle, decided the right side of the battlefield was my only option as their was way to much rough on the left. Downside is I expect Dan will realise this and have a solid defence on this side of the map.
On my right flank I have the Crossbowmen and Franc Archers providing a screen for the Voulgiers and four Men-at-arms accompanied by the Inspired C-in-C. This is hopefully going to be the main strike force that will swing around the edge of the plateau, depending on how strong the Burgundian defence is on this wing.
On the left I have the Spanish Crossbowmen, the scottish allied contingent and another group of four Men-at-arms accompanied by the Field commander. The aim here is to try and secure the plateau as my left flank for the right flank to swing around.
Behind I have kept another force of four Men-at-arms with the Troop commander as a reserve. If Dan deploys troops in the rough to the left of where I have setup, they may be needed to secure my left from being outflanked. Otherwise they can be sent forward to reinforce my frontline or lend their weight to where I feel the Burgundians are weak to help force a breakthrough.
The peasant levies are just filler to bulk out the army a tad, they will not get involved in the action if it can be helped.
Let's see how the Burgundians deploy and leave my plans in tatters....
T1 Start
Well it looks like I'm going to find out how good artillery is!!
On my extreme right where I am looking to make my main attack, the Burgundians have two Heavy Guns and one Light Gun alongside three Yorkist Longbows, so Dan has taken the Yorkist ally and could have two more Light Guns out of sight. I can also see two Ordonnance Handgunners obviously sent forward to scout out my troop setup.
Usually I would be tempted to sit back from the Artillery or avoid it all together if possible but I'm not sure I will be able to do so with this battlefield, as it's in the only good area for my Knights to attack through...
I'll send forward the Spanish Crossbows forward to get a better look at the Burgundians deployment before deciding wether to go ahead with my initial plans or not.
T1 End
After moving the Spanish Crossbows forward to the plateau, they uncovered more of the Burgundian forces. Dan has taken all of the Artillery available with a further two Light Guns. Their is a line of Yorkist Billmen between the left most Light Guns led by a TC Dismounted man-at-arms, the furthest left troops are three units of Longbowmen, Crossbowmen and a Mixed battlegroup, doubtless their are more troops further to the left of these.
Behind the frontline is a large group of eight average drilled Knights led by an IC Household Gendarmes which are Superior Knights.
Their are still 130pts or so of Burgundian troops still out of sight, so need to discover their whereabouts and composition a.s.a.p.
I have made a general advance this turn but still feel the Artillery on my extreme right is where I shall focus the assault, just need to weather the inevitable barrage to come to grips with them!!
T2 Start
A cautious start from Dan's Burgundians, he moved forward with the Handgunner LF to control the centre of the plateau and also moved up with the mixed missile MF behind the plateau reavealing another Longbow unit. His whole left wing with the Artillery remained stationary.
Having taken the Artillery I think Dan is in a bit of a catch 22 situation, he either plays defensively and keeps troops with the Artillery and hopes I oblige by attacking on my right flank, or he decides to contest the plateau in force and has to abandon at least the Heavy Artillery which is immobile. Not sure if Light Artillery can enter rough terrain?
I'm going to try and force the Burgundians hand a bit, advancing the Spanish Crossbow skirmishers this turn should reveal more of the Burgundian right wing. If it looks like I have superior numbers of MF to contest the plateau with then I will switch my main focus to gaining control of it. To this end I'm going to continue to advance on my left with the Scottish Allies, aiming to gain a toehold on the ridge as soon as possible, if I can get some Knights into the open up their they should be pretty hard to dislodge. My right wing is going to start shifting across to support the left, remaining out of range of the Burgundian Artillery, if they can gain the ridge unnopposed I feel it will put me in a strong position.
The reserve force of Knights will move up to the right to deter any Burgundian aggression on my right flank, I expect Dan's Knights may chance their arm on this flank at some point.
T2 End
Another three average Knights have been revealed along with seven more missile Medium Foot on the Burgundian right, will have to see how the Burgundians decide to play their left wing now, control of the Plateau looks like it could be key to getting the upper hand in this battle.
T3 Start
Looks like the Burgundians have decided to make a major push this turn to take the plateau, leaving the Heavy Artillery to guard the left flank.
The Billmen, Light Artillery and large group of Knights all moved up this turn, the Burgundian missile MF have taken commanding positions on top of the bluff followed up by the other group of Knights currently off map and look like they will take the narrow ridge directly in front of them next turn, which will put any forward move I make with the Knights on the left flank this turn open to being raked by bow fire, as the higher elevation of the Burgundians will mean they can overlook any troops I use to screen the Knights with... A unit of Burgundian Handgunners charged one of the Spanish Crossbow units knocking it down to disrupted, which also clogs up the gap I was hoping to push the Knights on the left through...
All along the line of the plateau I'm looking second favourite to be able to get troops up their uncontested, I'll have to see how things look next turn but I may have to go back to plan A with an attack around the right flank, if taking the plateau looks like it is going to be too costly.
T3 End
First blood to the Burgundians as the disrupted Spanish Crossbow unit turned tail and ran from the Ordonnance Handgunners.
This turn I now have six of the Scottish Longbow up on the plateau on the left flank, the remaining two Spanish Crossbows will hopefully buy a bit of time to further encroach on this flank of the hill. Decided in the end to move up the Knights on this flank to see how Dan responds, if the expected bow storm proves too much they will move away to a more central position or possibly even across to the right flank if I decide to go after the Heavy Guns.
Moved on with the rest of the troops in the centre and right, slightly stalling on the extreme right to remain out of range of the Heavy Guns. After seeing the Burgundians next turn I'll have to decide where to strike with all the Knights on the right flank, hopefully Dan will continue to commit his large group of Knights forward, as I may be able to glean where he intends to target with them...
T4 Start
The Burgundian Bows have swept the plateau clear of the Spanish Crossbows and taken a commanding position their supported by the three average Knights on this flank. The Billmen also moved upto the foot of the plateau this turn, the large group of Knights behind held this turn though, which may give me a chance to exploit the gap between the Burgundian Bows and Billmen.
This turn I will probably commit some of the Scottish Longbow on the left into disadvantaged impact combat, as I want to get the Knights on the left into combat as soon as possible to limit the amount of missile fire they will receive, also hope the Scottish Longbows swordsmen POA will help them gain the upper hand in the following melee. In the centre I'm going to push as many of the French Crossbows into the gap between the Burgundian Bows and Billmen as I can, going to have to make a decision wether to support here with the Knights on the right flank or try sweeping around the left flank of the Burgundians with them instead. Expect this is why Dan held the large group of Burgundian Knights this turn, as he needs to be able to react quickly if I do try and turn his left...
Last edited by andersm73 on Thu May 13, 2010 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
T4 End
Well that was a disaster and a half on my left flank, four of the Scottish Archers refused to charge the Burgundian Bowmen. However then one of the Average Knights decided to show them how it was done and promptly plowed straight over two of the Scottish Longbows to get at the Burgundian FC, disrupting both the Longbows, to cap it off another unit of Knights charged over a third Scottish Longbow to get at a unit of Burgundian Bow.... It's going to be tough coming back from that debacle!!
In the centre I've pushed some of the French Crossbows onto the plateau, backed up by the Voulgiers and three of the Average Knights from the right. On the right, perhaps impetuously after the shambles on the left, have sent the Knights forward to go after the Heavy Artillery, may force Dan to commit his large group of Knights now.
I'm sure Dan will try and capitalise on the problems I've had on the left, will have to hope I can make some inroads in the centre and right if I'm going to have any chance in this one.
T5 Start
After the shambles on the left flank last turn the Burgundians were surprisingly conservative in taking advantage of it. On the left the Burgundians didn't commit any more Bows to the melee, contenting themselves with keeping up a barrage of fire into the disrupted Scottish Longbows, knocking one down to Fragmented. The two units of French Knights that charged last turn are either already in a bad situation or soon will be, with the vicinity of the steep hills. It's not all doom and gloom on the left though, as one of the Burgundian Bows is disrupted and another one is facing two Scottish Longbows on it's own, which will hopefully be put down to at least disrupted this turn.
I'm amazed Dan held the Billmen in the centre this turn rather than moving up onto the plateau, as if I can get the French Crossbows to charge home against them, I'll have both the terrain and high ground on my side here now. Dan also held all bar one of the Burgundian Knights in reserve, if I continue to sweep the French Knights around on the right flank I'm sure he will move them across to counter the attack.
T5 End
Fortune swung the French way a bit this turn on the left flank. I withdrew the fragmented and two disrupted Scottish Longbows, in the hope of not giving away easy break points as things were getting messy with so many units in a confined area. One of the French Knights routed the already disrupted Burgundian bow, causing disruption to the two Knights directly behind it, then running away over one of them to escape causing the unit to go fragmented. With cries of St Denis, St Denis!! The other unit of French Knights waded into the now disrupted Burgundian FC, fragmenting the Commander as well!!
In the centre the French Crossbows snatched the high ground from under the noses of the Billmen and lone Knight, thundering into the enemy ranks the Knights were disrupted and one of the Billmen has taken over 25% losses. On the downside I'd also pushed one of the French Crossbows into combat against the rightmost Burgundian bow on the plateau, which disrupted as a result. When the fragmented Scottish Longbow routed from melee the French Crossbow followed suit and ran as well, running over one of the Franc Archers I'd pushed onto the plateau putting it down to Fragmented, as it had already disrupted with the fleeing Scots Archers.
On the right I've pushed on with the Knights, aiming to get to grips with the Burgundian Artillery as soon as possible.
Feel that turn has put me back in with a chance now, if nothing else at least the scoreline is a tad more respectable...
T6 Start
The scoreline looks bad but I feel the French are in reasonable shape and should do well this turn.
On the left flank the Burgundians have three fragmented units which I have a good chance of routing, doing so will put me in a good position to keep on contesting this side of the battlefield.
In the centre the French Crossbows are holding up well against the Billmen, although a lot of pressure is being put on the rightmost unit. Hopefully the fragmented Burgundian Knight unit will be sent packing this turn as well. I need to sweep the solitary Knight unit in front of the Voulgiers aside as quickly as possible, so I can send troops from the centre to support the left and/or the French Crossbows if they need it.
Dan has decided to send the large group of Burgundian Knights upto the plateau, rather than meeting the push from the French Knights on the right flank, I will want to try and contest them gaining the plateau if I can get units across to the other side of it in time.
On the right flank the initial Artillery and Bow fire took their toll, taking two Knights and a Crossbow unit down to disrupted status, I should be able to contact some of the Artillery this turn though and as the Burgundian Knights do not look like contesting this flank, I may have a chance to plow right over the Artillery and sweep round behind the Billmen.
T6 End
That was a huge turn for the French on the left flank, a big part of the Burgundian line was punched through, with the two Burgundian Knights and three units of various Bow put to flight.
In the centre however things didn't go quite as imagined, the solitary Knight engaged by the Voulgiers soaked up four impact / melee assaults without flinching, putting one of the Voulgiers straight to fragmented for their efforts. The Billmen and fragmented Knight survived the onslaught from the French Crossbows unscathed, helped by the close proximity of the IC no doubt, one of the Crossbows is now fragmented and I feel the initiative here is now with the Billmen.
On the right flank three of the French Knights charged home against Billmen, Light Artillery and Longbow units. The two disrupted Knights have taken refuge behind the Crossbows in front of them, I'm hoping the TC behind them will manage to rally at least one of them to steady at the end of the turn.
The scoreline is back to even for now, fingers crossed for some rallies!!
T7 Start
The left flank looks pretty secure now, so any units I can free up will be sent across to aid the centre, where the Burgundians are still looking strong with the Billmen getting the upper hand over the Crossbows. I want to stop the unit of Knights next to the Light Artillery from gaining the plateau next turn, the only unit I can see that could do it though is my CinC and I'm loathe to risk him in combat...
On the right things still hang in the balance, no point in sitting their being shot at though, so the Knights will do what they do best and charge any of the Burgundian Artillery they can reach, if I can turn this flank I should be able to encircle the Billmen and Knights in the Burgundian centre.
T7 End
On the left I've pushed three units of Knights across the plateau to threaten the flank of the Burgundian Knights, in the centre decided to send the CinC to bolster the Crossbows against the Billmen, he couldn't stop one of them dropping to fragmented though. On the right the French Knights fared pretty well, routing the fragmented Billmen and fragmenting one of the Archers, one of the Heavy Artillery has also been disrupted.
T8 Start
It's looking pretty good for the French now, the Crossbows in the centre managed to hold off the Billmen for another turn backed up by the IC, which gives me a bit more time to organise a second line to meet the potential breakthrough by the Billmen.
On the right flank the Burgundian Artillery now looks close to breaking, which if they do will free up units to move behind the Billmen and Knights in the centre.
The Burgundian Knights have turned to face the French Knights that have burst across the plateau from the left flank.
T8 End
It looks as though the writing is on the wall for the Burgundians now, the Artillery on the right are being put to the sword by the French Knights. The French Crossbows in the centre are doing their version of Custers last stand, valiantly resisting to bow to the pressure being put on them by the Billmen though they can't hold much longer. Brought more units across the plateau to make it tough for the Burgundian Knights if they try gaining the plateau this turn, which with the experience I've had with Knights so far is if they are in range they will usually charge wether you want them too or not...
