Later Grenadine era error

Lupus · Post by **Lupus** » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:57 pm

Hi,

The Later Grenadine list states it's from 1450-1492. It should be from 1340-1492 (TT companion pg. 85)
Also, I think the images are a bit to Christian and not very Muslim kingdom like. Especially the lancers and various crossbowmen are to European for my taste

Rgds

L

Examinondas · Post by **Examinondas** » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:42 pm

In WRG's "Armies of Feudal Europe 1066-1300", Ian Heath says that Granadine Heavy cavalry of the mid-13th - early-14th century were

[...] equipped in unmistakably European-style armour and using the the higher saddle favoured among their Christian enemies, were first introduced in large numbers by Mohammed I of Granada (1235-73). [...] Some substituted a turban for the coif and helmet, but others resembled Christian knights even more closely (though some at least of the latter are probably in fact Christian mercenaries) [...] Ibn al-Khatib adds that although armour of the type described above had "previously" been worn, heavy cavalry of his time (the early-14th century) were equipped with smaller ("short and light") corselets, light helmets, long, slender lances, leather shields and Berber saddles, which he regarded as an improvement.

Even if SoA's time period is not completely covered by the above description, I guess that if Granadine cavalry changed, it was to become even more similar to their Christian counterparts.

In short

: SoA Granadine cavalry models should be mixture of European and Muslim styles, and the current ones look ok to me.

Lupus · Post by **Lupus** » Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:22 pm

I concur...

Examinondas · Post by **Examinondas** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:40 am

It has been pointed to me that actually the Granadine cavalry only followed the Christian style for a brief time, and then adopted a "more Muslim" appearance (the changes mentioned above as introduced in the mid-14th century were apparently very deep). So Lupus, it looks like you are right

Examinondas · Post by **Examinondas** » Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:56 am

Upon closer inspection of SoA's Granadine army, I also find it a bit lacking

Just compare SoA's figures with http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~kuijt/dba155/dba155.html or http://theminiaturespage.com/news/766217

However, I'm sure better models will be introduced later, at the very least when Swords and Scimitars is released.

SoA's Castilian army is also not very good looking, with their turkish jinetes...