May the force be with Lucas

duncan · Post by **duncan** » Tue May 24, 2005 10:28 am

My girlfriend always loved Star Trek because Kirk et al save whales, polar bears and more furry animals vaguely resembling our cat. But I always prefer Star Wars. And my knees are shaking at the simple thought of watching the new released Episode III because of what Lucas did with Episode I and II. I'm really terrified by the idea of going to the cinema and watch a horrible Episode III amidst popcorn noises and kids shouting. I have the DVD pack (episodes IV, V and VI) and I cannot stop watching them, they're great (and I heard "Luke, I am your father" in english for the first time!!!!!) but I saw Episode II on TV last night and it was appalling

. I'm in love with Natalie Portman since "Beautiful Girls" (

) but Episode II was awful...

So, What do you think of Episode III? People are liking it, but I'm not sure...perhaps I'll wait for the DVD, cinema is so expensive...

efthimios · Post by **efthimios** » Tue May 24, 2005 11:10 am

I like N.P since the first time I saw her, in LEON. What a great movie and excellent performace from her though she was just a kid. Anyway, to what you said, I haven't seen the movie yet, I might go to Cardiff to watch it in the first week or so of June, and so far I have mostly heard good things about it. It would be something that you will regret it for the rest of your life if you are a Star Wars fan and do not go to see it at least once in the cinema. I have for not doing so the first trilogy (with the rerelease, I was too young in the original movie release), and I am not going to make the same mistake again.

bodidley · Post by **bodidley** » Tue May 24, 2005 8:07 pm

Lucas hasn't been making many movies so his directing skills have not significantly improved over the years (he's only done Star Wars, and co-directed Indiana Jones). The first three Star Wars episodes are among the first screenplays he has written so it's not so surprising that Episode I was unforgivably bad (not even good if you weren't offended by the horribly racist dialogue). I wouldn't get my hopes up to expect a really great film, but so long as you wait for the crowds to get smaller, it's still probably worth a night at the movies.

P.S. I can't imagine anyone but James Earl Jones doing Vader's voice!

Post by **pipfromslitherine** » Tue May 24, 2005 9:41 pm

All I'm going to say is that it's not as bad as I feared, but not as good as I hoped.

Good fighting, terrible writing.

At least we now have closure and can let the series rest in peace!

Cheers

Pip

efthimios · Post by **efthimios** » Tue May 24, 2005 10:39 pm

I remember when I first watched the original trilogy in the later 90s after a break of 10 years from the last time, how much surprised I was to see all that cheesy acting and script. The dialogue is TERRIBLE TERRIBLE TERRIBLE, the whole thing is amazingly bad. Still, it is a great movie(s) to watch and I like them a lot.

duncan · Post by **duncan** » Wed May 25, 2005 4:24 am

we now have closure and can let the series rest in peace!

Lucas said they were three more episodes right after the Episode VI.

I can't imagine anyone but James Earl Jones doing Vader's voice!

Same goes for the spanish Vader's voice

I found the english voice really strange in the first film, then got used to it and in Episode VI was real good...

The dialogue is TERRIBLE TERRIBLE TERRIBLE

I liked the C3PO-R2D2 lines the most, even more with the recently discovered 3PO's english accent.

I think the dialogue gets better in Episode V and in episode VI (And then goes down again in Episode I and II - well, Episode II hasn't even dialogue) but in Episode IV is really naive. But the Star Wars universe is powerful, my young padawan.

bodidley · Post by **bodidley** » Wed May 25, 2005 4:51 am

duncan wrote:Lucas said they were three more episodes right after the Episode VI.
.

I think that Lucas had planned to make more films originally, but he has decided to retire from directing. That's just what I've heard.

duncan · Post by **duncan** » Wed May 25, 2005 5:37 am

Lucas had planned to make more films originally, but he has decided to retire from directing

Lord Vader, have mercy upon us.

Best movies in the whole Star Wars thing are those not directed by Lucas, "Empire Strikes Back" is a good example. And Episode II is a better example.

penguinism · Post by **penguinism** » Wed May 25, 2005 8:30 am

Ok just an important question!!!!!

I am not a Star Wars obsessive person(as one that goes to Star Wars conventions) but I do enjoy the Star wars movies.

The thing is, I quite like Episode I and II. Thats right I think they are good movies! What I don't understand is that from reviews and forum so many people claim they are bad/terrible movies. I wanted to ask why exactly they think like that, why don't you all tell me.

The way I see movies is that not to take them too serious, I mean they are only entertainments after all. And being only 2 hours long they can't have that much plot or story developments in them. So I think with some very convincing special effects and good acting what is so bad about the movies?

duncan · Post by **duncan** » Wed May 25, 2005 8:45 am

What I don't understand is that from reviews and forum so many people claim they are bad/terrible movies. I wanted to ask why exactly they think like that, why don't you all tell me.

If you like the romantic scenes of Episode II you must be too young or too old. And they are half of the film. The baddies have no charisma at all (like Darth Vader had) and they're TOO MANY special effects in both films. The battle in Episode II is one good example of how the effects are used the wrong way. too many jedis, too many explosions, too many lasers of too many colors...the plot is naive, it does not have the twist of the first trilogy, Jar Jar Binks is stupid, we all know that Annakin will fall so what's the point?? there's no mistery in that and that kills Episode II.

EDIT: I just remember...Hayden Christensen or whatever is his name....awful choice

bodidley · Post by **bodidley** » Wed May 25, 2005 9:20 am

I think that 120 minutes is way more than enough time to fully develop a plot. Kurosawa could develop a plot in 90 minutes, and when he first started doing 90 minute features most directors were doing 45 minute double features. I think that when directors make a movie 160 minutes + they better be showing a damn good story, or else it simply isn't worth the audience's time, not to mention the trauma to the viewer's bladder! Also, I have seen some anime television series that manage to develop the plot of each episode magnificently within the 22 minute television time slot.

I didn't like the lack of plot development in episodes I and II, and I found the dialogue in Episode I to be appauling. Since many of the characters were locked in stereotypes there wasn't much room for character development. Speaking of stereotypes, the mannerisms and accents of the characters were ridiculously stereotyped, dare I say racist; Jar Jar Binx was a "Jim Crow" character, the Trade Federation diplomats were "Frogs", and Aniken Skywalker's winged slave owner was a "miserly Jew". I'm amazed Lucas wasn't wise enough to change the script he had written as a young man, especially in a main stream movie.

Personally I didn't find the special effects all that impressive, especially in Episode I. Everything that can be done with a computer can be done with analog methods, it's all a matter of the skill of the technician. The super-imposures in episode I were not done that well, though they were done very well in Episode II. I think the computer painted graphics of Episode I weren't very convincing either. One of the problems I often see with CG in movies is that the lighting is very unnatural. Perhaps I'm just picky because I'm a photographer

The violence just doesn't do it for me either. When much attention is put in special effects, I usually expect to see some gore and suffering, otherwise it just isn't real for me. With the Star Wars movies, I like to imagine to myself that since they are fighting with lasers all of the wounds are instantly cauterized, of course the real reason is that they want a PG rating

Of course, you don't need special effects to make action convincing. Highly stylized violence can sometimes be far more convincing than special effects. One example that comes to my mind is a scene in the Japanese film Kwaidan depicting the 12th century battle of Dan-no-Ura. If we already know that the movie isn't real, what good does it do if the movie doesn't inspire our imaginations?

Now, to get to the point; yes, the star wars movies were definately entertaining enough to be worth a trip to the movies with your friends($9 a ticket and then rip-off candy later it's cheaper on DVD), are they great movies? I don't think so, but they don't have to be. If any of my opinions get you all riled up just remember that you asked for 'em

efthimios · Post by **efthimios** » Wed May 25, 2005 9:58 am

I found Episode I very boring. The pod racing scene (BTW any of you know how to run P.O.D from Ubi on XP?) that was so much advertised I found the most boring of all, plus I did not believe (well, you know what I mean) not even for a second that that kid was piloting the pod racer, or later the fighter. Talking of which, I still don't get it, was he supposed to kill everything by accident because he didn't know what he was doing, or was he good and just being sarcastic about it? For me the best parts of Episode I were: 1) Anakin's mother

, 2) The shiny ship of the princess (because I like shiny things), 3) The scenes with the robot armies. (not the actual battles which I found so bad I was shocked.
There are plenty of bad things about it, the bad dialogue, the "clever" idea of the new source of the force, The lack of at any point feeling like anyone was in danger (which was surprising when certain someone died).

Episode II was much better IMO. I have watched it few times and I still find it an entertaining movie close to the original trilogy. The only parts I did not like at all were 1)The romance, I couldn't believe those two were in love no matter how much I tried, 2) The constant whining and bitching of Anakin, 3) The battle with Yoda, I actualy laughed out loud in the cinema the first time I saw it, and whenever I see it now I just close my eyes or do something else till the scene is over. I keep thinking Kermit is fighting and leaping up and down against the swedish chef.

penguinism · Post by **penguinism** » Wed May 25, 2005 7:09 pm

Ok thanks a lot dudes, I think that answers my question. I am just someone who thinks life is a comedy and laugh at Un-funny jokes that tries to be funny. Maybe thats why I like the Star Wars movies so much(the first 2).

Post by **pipfromslitherine** » Wed May 25, 2005 8:10 pm

Ep2 was one of the worst films ever made, IMHO. Nonsensical plot, dreadful acting, and sub-par special effects.

Ep3 is better than that, but then so is an episode of The Muppets.

Pip

sum1won · Post by **sum1won** » Thu May 26, 2005 12:34 am

Actually, the muppets has won several noted awards.... And I happen to like it. Or at least I did when I saw it at the age of 8...

Star Wars 1- Mediocre. Nothing flashy.
Star Wars 2- Horrible. Looks like a chick-flick with laser guns.
Star Wars 3- Decent. Cool battles, bad acting for some, good acting for others. Tolerable dialogue on average.
Star wars 4- Cool. Just saw it again. Special effects are awful, but the realism of the lightsabre battles is superb. The new lightsabre battles look like fencing in the matrix. These actually look realistic.
Star wars 5- Nice plot. GREAT DIALOGUE. Nice acting, except at cloud city. Luke seems to be in more pain from what vader tells him than from losing his friggin hand.
Star Wars 6- YIPPEE! The best of all. Good acting. Good plot. Good everything. Heppy ending + EWOKS! EWOKS ARE THE BEST!

efthimios · Post by **efthimios** » Thu May 26, 2005 12:55 am

sum1won wrote: EWOKS! EWOKS ARE THE BEST!

I just lost all my respect for you. I remember as a kid liking them, and even almost crying (when one of them died and its companion thought that it just fell and pushed it a bit but saw that it was dead, very touching), but after a while I just thought they were the worse part of the movies. And yes I still find that scene touching, SHUT UP!

I agree with you about the sword fighting, it looks so much more cool in the original trilogy than in the prequels.

bodidley · Post by **bodidley** » Thu May 26, 2005 5:42 am

Ending your trilogy with space alien teddy bears rockin out? Come on, that's weird.

honvedseg · Post by **honvedseg** » Thu May 26, 2005 1:25 pm

I was seriously disappointed when I saw Episode I, not only for the mediocre acting and dialogue, but for the absurdly hurried pacing of the film. There was no time for character development, people just bumped into each other and instantly became either lifelong friends or bitter enemies. There was very little chance to catch up on all of the events happening almost simultaneously in places, and the film desperately needed a few moments of breathing space or reflection such as in the original film where Luke stands watching the multiple moons of Tatooine at sunset. To make matters worse, the stereotypical and predictable actions of the various aliens (Binks as a worst case example) were an insult to my intelligence, and probably to a number of other people as well for other reasons. The previously mentioned acting and dialogue was especially lifeless and forced during the meetings between Anakin and Amadala, but the poor acting was by no means limited to them. The "epic battle" scene was an example of taking a technological "toy" and exploiting it instead of making a credible scene. It was interesting to see strictly for the computerized graphics and animation, but the battle itself was awful, silly, and annoying, sort of like the ewoks got at the end of RotJ (which was actually a decent film otherwise).

The "second" episode (the fifth one made) was a curious mix of good and bad, with the same emotionless scenes as before, only worse, combined with much improved and more believable computer animation and use of sets and effects, as well as much improved pacing of the film. A fine example of the high and low points is Yoda at the academy speaking to a class of students, doing a marvelous believable job as a Jedi teacher (probably the best "character development" in the trilogy so far), and then the same little beast doing flips and bouncing around the room like a ridiculous cartoon character in a later fight scene.

The "unofficial" reviews so far have convinced me to see the "third" episode, but not to go out of my way for it.

ste · Post by **ste** » Sun May 29, 2005 12:27 am

duncan wrote:
we now have closure and can let the series rest in peace!

Lucas said they were three more episodes right after the Episode VI.

True as that is, im also pretty sure also said that those movies will never be made (at least not by him)

bodidley · Post by **bodidley** » Sun May 29, 2005 9:17 am

Man, just saw it. Almost the entire movies is jam-packed with super-imposed animation where the lighting makes no sense, every scene is cut with a wipe, and it was 9.25 per ticket for a matinee

The romance between Anikan and the princess is about as warm as a wind storm in antarctica

. I don't know who this guy playing Anikan is but he's a terrible actor.

I would say it was a mildly amusing movie, but a bit underwhelming.

May the force be with Lucas

May the force be with Lucas

Worst of the bunch