Italian States

[rbodleyscott]

What states (if any) does this cover apart from Milan, Florence and the Papal States.

Presumably Naples is covered by the Spanish/Imperialist list?

[nikgaukroger]

What states (if any) does this cover apart from Milan, Florence and the Papal States.

Off the top of my head, no idea I think there were some others who could field armies at the start of the period but I'd have to look it up. Mantua possibly? (or I'm just recalling the C17th War of the Mantuan Succession ...)

Presumably Naples is covered by the Spanish/Imperialist list?

I think so.

[rbodleyscott]

Sorry to go on about this but the following armies have "vanilla" Italian allies:

Italian Wars French
Trastamara Spanish
Italian States
Italian Wars Venetian

One question is, who are these allies, if not one of the main states?

A second question is, did Florence ever supply anyone with an ally contingent? If not, (or if they didn't do so after 1506), there is no need for the Florentine militia in the Italian states ally list. If they did, they special instruction don't currently allow them to field the militia because Florence isn't specifically named.

Also, with regard to the notes about the Florentine militia, where does the figure of 10,000 come from? Oman says the militia raised in 1506 was 20,000 men, of which 7/10 (14,000) had pike, 1/10 (2,000) had firearms and 2/12 (4,000) had halberds or other “white weapons”, but maybe that was only what the Provisione specified and not so many were raised in reality. It seems unliekly that Machiavelli would underestimate the number actually raised.

[nikgaukroger]

Sorry to go on about this but the following armies have "vanilla" Italian allies:

Italian Wars French
Trastamara Spanish
Italian States
Italian Wars Venetian

One question is, who are these allies, if not one of the main states?

I have some notes somewhere I'll dig them out and check that they all need minor states or change them to major states if necessary.

A second question is, did Florence ever supply anyone with an ally contingent? If not, (or if they didn't do so after 1506), there is no need for the Florentine militia in the Italian states ally list. If they did, they special instruction don't currently allow them to field the militia because Florence isn't specifically named.

Thought somebody had them - so I've either missed them off a list or we can indeed delete them from the allied contingent.

Also, with regard to the notes about the Florentine militia, where does the figure of 10,000 come from? Oman says the militia raised in 1506 was 20,000 men, of which 7/10 (14,000) had pike, 1/10 (2,000) had firearms and 2/12 (4,000) had halberds or other “white weapons”, but maybe that was only what the Provisione specified and not so many were raised in reality. It seems unliekly that Machiavelli would underestimate the number actually raised.

F.L. Taylor "The Art of War in Italy, 1494-1525" says 10,000 although I found a reference to 12,000 in here - http://www.archive.org/stream/3implifet ... t_djvu.txt

I found the following from Duncan Head:

"The militia was set up in early 1506 with a law of late 1506 calling for a strength
of 10,000. However one of Machiavelli's own letters refers to 12,000 men being on
the rolls, and Oman p.96 says the Provisione per Milizie Nationale envisaged 20,000."

[rbodleyscott]

Changed special instruction to:

 The number of Light Horse and Cavalry battle groups cannot exceed the number of Gendarme battle groups.

[nikgaukroger]

Sensible.