800 Italian Condotta

[Fuzzystrawberry]

Our group has just moved up to the 800 point mark. Prior to this we have been playing the starter armies out of the book. While I realize that there is no super list I would like feedback on this list. It seemed very clunky on its first outing.

1 FC
2 TC
Pikemen x 12
Billmen x 4
Billmen x 4
Guardsmen x 4
Handgunner x 6
handgunner x 6
Mercenary men at Arms x 6
Mercenary men at Arms x 6
Mounted crossbowmen x 6
Turks x 6
Feudal Men at Arms x 4
Crossbowmen (LF) x 4

All of the heavy foot together seemed way to big to move around together. For what it is worth I have them listed in the order of march I was using. I have 8 bases of crossbowmen based as MF, artillery, and more knights for list modification. Should I have the HF group in a particular way on the field? Is my order of march off?

Thanks for the input.

Fuzzy

[benos]

ok couple of suggestions. either go up to an IC or go for 4 TC's . Force commander best for plank marching really.
handgunners generally work better in 4's (really only there to add the -1 to cohesion tests)
mounted crossbows again in 4's the extra manouverability is considerable
same for the turks

hope this helps

Ben

[BlackPrince]

as Ben says drop the handgunners, Mounted Xbow and turks to 4s. If the list allows more pike them sepnd the extra points on more pike and have two pikes in 8s it will give you an extra BG.
my preferrence is for IC and 2xTC but that does depend on how expensive your troops are. My Ilkhandin Mongols run a IC and 2xTC and My later Crusaders a FC and 2TC but if my crusaders I am still thinking about just running 3xTC and trying to buy another BG.

[Fuzzystrawberry]

I already have the points built in to go ahead and down grade the leader and add a 4 commander with not BG changes. Changing the Hand gunners to 4 is easy enough, but miniature selectionwise if I drop the LH to 4 then I don't have enough for the 3rd LH (only have 6 of each turk and mtd crossbows).

If I downgrade the 2 light horse then I can afford 8 stand unit of MF Crossbows. A trade off worth looking at? I can use them to ambush and be my only troops at home in terrain.

To have more pike I have to use an ally and change my City from Naples to venice.

Fuzzy

[babyshark]

I already have the points built in to go ahead and down grade the leader and add a 4 commander with not BG changes. Changing the Hand gunners to 4 is easy enough, but miniature selectionwise if I drop the LH to 4 then I don't have enough for the 3rd LH (only have 6 of each turk and mtd crossbows).

If I downgrade the 2 light horse then I can afford 8 stand unit of MF Crossbows. A trade off worth looking at? I can use them to ambush and be my only troops at home in terrain.

To have more pike I have to use an ally and change my City from Naples to venice.

Fuzzy

It's still worth it to change to LH from 6s to 4s, even if that means not buying the extra BG of LH. Use the points somewhere else. LH in 4s are so much more maneuverable and "escapable"; it makes a world of difference.

Marc

[Fuzzystrawberry]

Okay changes I have made:

4 TC
Pikemen x 10
Billmen x 4
Billmen x 4
Guardsmen x 4
Handgunner x 4
handgunner X 4
handgunner x 4
Mercenary men at Arms x 6
Mercenary men at Arms x 6
Mounted crossbowmen x 4
Turks x 4
Feudal Men at Arms x 4
Crossbowmen (LF) x 4
Crossbowmen (MF) x 6

Order of march suggestions.

[ShrubMiK]

Depends on what you are fighting against and what your plan is against them

[MatteoPasi]

To have more pike I have to use an ally and change my City from Naples to venice.

Fuzzy

Its not clear how an ally commander is supposed to work in this list , actually there is no ally commander stat in the list al all !!

How much does it cost ? is it able to command only allied or every troup ?

Matteo

[gozerius]

Italian Condotta have the option for 2 allied Condotta contingents. Instructions for their use is on page 70 of SoA, 4th bullet.

[MatteoPasi]

Italian Condotta have the option for 2 allied Condotta contingents. Instructions for their use is on page 70 of SoA, 4th bullet.

This is exactly the point which isn't so clear or complete !

[gozerius]

An allied contingent can use any troops from the main list, plus if representing a specific named city, can use minimum sized BGs of troops specific to that city. So if you use a Milanese ally, it could consist of BGs from the main list, which count against the army minima and maxima, plus one 2-stand BG of Famiglia knights. The troops in the contingent are treated as normal allies, CTs and CMTs can only be affected by their own ally commander.

Greg Boeser

[MatteoPasi]

Ok, and how many points does an Ally Commander cost ? 80/50/35 like a normal sub commander or 70/40/25 like other's list's Ally Commanders ? This list has not stats at all about Ally Commander.
Thanks
Matteo

[Esbenmf]

Another question: Could the ally contingent consist of just the two knigts and an commander ?

Esben

[MatteoPasi]

I believe its possible even a single unit and a Commander
ex: alleato Milanese can be fielded even with only the Famiglia Ducale KN S

[gozerius]

Ok, and how many points does an Ally Commander cost ? 80/50/35 like a normal sub commander or 70/40/25 like other's list's Ally Commanders ? This list has not stats at all about Ally Commander.
Thanks
Matteo

40 for a field commander, 25 for a troop commander. Inspired commander is only an option for the CinC