Reserve Units

andersm73 · Post by **andersm73** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:32 pm

Any thoughts on how best to utilise Reserves? I've been using them directly behind the frontline(as I thought this helps the two units in combat in front maintain cohesion) with gaps in between but time and again retreating units rout through the reserves rather than the gap. Perhaps having reserves two hexes back rather than the one would help limit this?

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:36 pm

Not sure that reserves are much help in this game, I try to keep a general behind troops who need to be rallied or its an important fight but even then its a risky business if they rout and go through the generals unit. Probably 2 hexes is your safest bet and hope the routers turn after their first hex of rout move for you. That way if an enemy pursues they should have to engage your reserve unit if they make it that far.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:42 pm

Reserves are very important. They reduce the chance of the front line dropping cohesion levels and can plug holes. If routs are causing so much trouble we may need another look at them. We have made a lot of improvements to them but it looks like there are still some odd situations we missed.

If people can give examples of start and end posistions for bad rout/evade moves in screenshots it would be really useful to help us track down the issue.

andersm73 · Post by **andersm73** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:45 pm

Makes sense, I'll try that and see if it improves things. The rules do state for cohesion tests that having adjacent friends in the rear arc that aren't LH or LF gives a +1 on rally rolls, not sure if this is worth the disruption though...

andersm73 · Post by **andersm73** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:02 pm

From my limited experience it would seem units rout directly away from the unit that attacks at least for the first hex, regardless of wether that hex is occupied by another friendly unit and the other rear hex is vacant.

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:22 pm

iainmcneil wrote:Reserves are very important. They reduce the chance of the front line dropping cohesion levels and can plug holes. If routs are causing so much trouble we may need another look at them. We have made a lot of improvements to them but it looks like there are still some odd situations we missed.

If people can give examples of start and end posistions for bad rout/evade moves in screenshots it would be really useful to help us track down the issue.

If you could give a fairly simple description of what the expected behavior is it would make it a good deal easier to test for anomalous results. On the TT with the written rules I know what to expect in general for the path of a routing or evading unit. This isn't nearly as obvious in the PC version unfortunately so it would be helpful to have a better idea what to expect. My experience doesn't seem to be in general that a unit broken in combat will always move directly away from the unit that caused it to break. And it certainly does not always seem to go for an open hex versus one occupied by a friend when it would appear an open hex adjacent would seem to be available.

Also, what path should units continuing to rout without pursuit attempt to follow? In the TT game they are supposed to move directly for their base edge. This can be a bit unclear in a hex grid but again it feels like I've seen cases where routers have moved through an occupied square versus an open one. And then there's the really frustrating case where you have a routing unit in one hex and a fragmented one that just rallied in the other one available to the router and the router runs through the fragmented unit rather than through the other router (or just moving after the other router and then through the open hex.) In general continuing routs, e.g. the equivalent of ones in the Joint Action Phase on the TT, should probably have routers closest to their edge moved before ones farther from the edge. This doesn't seem to be the way the PC version resolves it now.

Chris

Paisley · Post by **Paisley** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:06 pm

While I agree that the rule needs to work in the way intended (and what the rule is to be clear), I'm not necessarily convinced that routers would always head for gaps rather than seek shelter by pushing into or through reserve units. They wouldn't always do so of course but I think there are sufficient examples of units doing so historically for it to be a possibility.

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:59 pm

It may be that units rout directly away...but just what is directly away when there are two choices usually...two hexsides...but the main prob seems to be when a routing/evading unit hits a friendly one, it will just keep going and going.

I will try to play/set up some situations...hmmm...can I issue a challenge and accept it??

There needs to be some sort of always-choose-the-empty-hex kinda logic to the evades/routs since players have no control over it.

Or...maybe allow routs/evades to interpenetrate and only cause probs to them, not the units gone through?

Will see what I can show.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:43 pm

Just had a turn where a spear unit routed through a friendly pike unit even though directly away as in opposite hex side was a nice blank hex. I still think routers are lonely so want to take company with them as they run. I am sure somewhere Herodotus documented such an occurrence.......

TheGrayMouser · Post by **TheGrayMouser** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:40 am

deadtorius wrote:Just had a turn where a spear unit routed through a friendly pike unit even though directly away as in opposite hex side was a nice blank hex. I still think routers are lonely so want to take company with them as they run. I am sure somewhere Herodotus documented such an occurrence.......

I like how units rout as is, there should always be the risk of troops attempting to break into your own mens formations to seek safety/sancuary, even if you make "lanes"

As for reserves, the key is to make sure your battle lines have sufficient space between them. Illustrates the risk of sending in a battle line of low quality troops as the ist wave.. They likley will come back carrying away your next line of decent troops.

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:44 am

I don't mind some risk. It's the going down an entire battle line that doesn't seem right. And you could argue that if you have a unit up behind two in the front line with open hexes to either side of the support, evading/routing stuff up front would tend to go around instead of bursting through.

andersm73 · Post by **andersm73** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:24 am

Having played a few more test games with reserve units I'd agree units do not always rout directly away from the attacker, but can choose either of it's rear hexes to move away to regardless of wether occupied or not. I'd also accept that routers could well move through your own units in blind panic to escape, for me it's more about is the benefit of supporting front units actually worth the risk of increasing the chances of disrupting your own reserves, by having them directly behind the front line.

I haven't experienced a line of troops being moved through that I can recall, sounds nasty!! Is this more frequent when a unit is attacked from the flank, does this affect how the unit moves away if routed ie: sideways rather than to it's rear?

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:30 am

They should avoid friends if they can in a cone projecting forwards from their initial rout direction. The expected behaviour is to look right - if you see anything that doesn't feel right let us know.