Partisanen Everywhere!!

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:30 am

Okay, so a partisan here or there I can deal with, but sheeeshh, they seem to pop up everywhere! What is everyone else doing about them? I have a garrison in every French and Polish town!!! A small (2 corps) reserve just to train around and deal with them?

PanzerGeneral · Post by **PanzerGeneral** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:08 am

Blathergut wrote:Okay, so a partisan here or there I can deal with, but sheeeshh, they seem to pop up everywhere! What is everyone else doing about them? I have a garrison in every French and Polish town!!! A small (2 corps) reserve just to train around and deal with them?

I apply the same tactic as you. I have 2 infantry korps travelling about handling those pesky partisans. In my current (first) GS game (me axis, AI allies). I have not had any trouble with partisans in Poland, some in France. But in Yugoslavia there are usually 3-4 active partisan units all the time. If I kill one another one pops up

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:13 am

I think it would be good if the chance of partisans forming was related to teh military presence. If you have garrisons in cities chances shoudl be much lower. I don't think its fun for either side to have these expendable units roaming around continuously if there are no easy targets.

pk867 · Post by **pk867** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:58 pm

Hi,
In the manual v1.04 page 32, section 7.1, describes the changes to Partisan behavior.

You should have garrisons in territories that you conquer.

pk867

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:58 pm

pk867 wrote:Hi,
In the manual v1.04 page 32, section 7.1, describes the changes to Partisan behavior.

You should have garrisons in territories that you conquer.

pk867

Yes, had read this. It just seems a pain to have them always popping up. Had a Greek one pop up on Crete the turn after Greece fell...so much for controlling Crete!

As Allies, has anyone found them actually useful in some way(s)? I suppose if placed beside Germans, that would keep them from railing somewhere. And they suck up all those PP in garrisons.

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:17 pm

I actually find the changes made to partisans easier to deal with than before. Even though you have them popping up a lot more often they are always garrisons and less than full strength. They are pain to deal with but so were the French Resistance and Yugoslavian partisans. I've found that, in addition to the garrisons I usually deploy to cities, that I need two infantry corps in reserve to deal with them.

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:25 pm

Experience too I suppose!

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:33 pm

Blathergut wrote:Experience too I suppose!

In my current game against Paul I had one pop up in the Greek Isles (not Crete) southeast of Athens. That island is two hexes and has no port. Since I had Crete I really didn't need if for an airbase so I've left him alone for two years now.

I try to keep most cities garrisoned with a garrison. Even so, there are always a few that wind up unoccupied. There is a chance for a partisan to pop up in the city but that's never happened to me.

I'm just curious if anyone yet has had a partisan appear in a city.

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:43 pm

Not that I remember. The one on Crete popped up adjacent. I've kept all other cities garrisoned.

pk867 · Post by **pk867** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:31 pm

In the game between me and Alec, one popped up in a russian city so it can happen.
Also later one popped up in a Polish city.

pk867

trulster · Post by **trulster** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:54 pm

If you do liberate a city with partisans, can you then build and place units there? If so potentially very tricky for Germans, garrison it all!

pk867 · Post by **pk867** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:02 pm

You can add to the unit there according to the supply level (3) . As a rail point it must have continuous hexes back to the rail net. So if it is surrounded by Axis or
allied hexes, you can not rail to the city. That also depends upon supply level. In supply the unit starts to gain in effectiveness.

pk867

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:05 pm

iainmcneil wrote:I think it would be good if the chance of partisans forming was related to teh military presence. If you have garrisons in cities chances shoudl be much lower. I don't think its fun for either side to have these expendable units roaming around continuously if there are no easy targets.

While the chance of partisans forming outside of cities is not affected the chance that they form in a city is reduced to 0 for all cities garrisoned. If you garrison all or most of the cities in conquered countries where partisans can form the you are guaranteed (or mostly guaranteed) that the partisans that form (which are garrisons and usually less than 10-steps) are out of supply. If a partisan forms in a city, or near an abandoned city that it can move to, then it can be reinforced (i.e., repaired). It was also provide the full PPs for that city to its side. Also, a supplied garrison in a city is much harder to deal with than a partial strength one not in supply.

pk867 wrote:In the game between me and Alec, one popped up in a russian city so it can happen.
Also later one popped up in a Polish city.

pk867

Good to know! I tend to garrison as many cities as I can; especially capitals, port cities and PP producing cities.

What we wanted in GS for partisans, and other activities (e.g., rail, naval transports, invasion, North African supply) was a system that did not require a player to do something or place a hard limit on them. For example, "you must garrison every captured city in country such and such." We chose not to go that route. We wanted to develop a system that allowed players to make their own choices and then face the consequences of those choices. For example, I choose not to garrison cities in those countries but I know that at some time during the game that I will likely have partisans form in or near cities. And in those cases I will have to put significant effort and resources to dig them out. Or I choose to garrison as many of those cities as I can, which will minimize the impact of partisans. However; this requires a not so insignificant expenditure on garrisons. An expenditure I could use elsewhere. And still, I'll need one or two infantry corps that I'll rail to trouble areas to help deal with the more remote or stubborn partisans. We wanted to develop a system for a number of activities that allowed each player to decide based on their own calculation of risks versus rewards how they approach these activities.

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:14 pm

trulster wrote:If you do liberate a city with partisans, can you then build and place units there? If so potentially very tricky for Germans, garrison it all!

A country can only place newly built units in cities for which they are the owning country. The owning country is set in the scenario and never changes. This is different than the controlling country. The turn after you capture a city you can rail units to it. If a partisan recaptures a city you lose the PPs and the ability to rail to it until you re-recapture it.

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:41 pm

Partisans arrive more often than before and can even appear in some conquered countries (half the spawning rate of unconquered countries). Partisans will now only be garrisons (never corps) and the strength is usually lower than 10. The actual strength is random and divided in 3 groups.

Partisans are also much more likely to appear in non-clear terrain. That's the reason you see so many partisans in Yugoslavia and Greece.

This means the Axis player should garrison most of the conquered cities (at least the producing ones) and resources. The garrisons can kill the partisans if they're weak, but if you're unlucky and get a strong partisan it's better to kill it with a corps. So we now have a system that doesn't force players to garrison cities, but they better do it or they get into trouble. In countries like Yugoslavia and France it's a good idea to have
corps units spread around as a reserve and quickly kill spawning garrisons. This is particularly important late in the war. E. g. French partisans can
make Overlord easier if the Allies invade close to a partisan. If the partisans appeared in a coastal hex then the partisan can move and the Allied player invade without using amphs.

I think the partisan warfare works well now. The partisans are a nuisance, but nothing more unless you ignore them and let them multiply. So players who lose control of the situation have themselves to blame.

If you look at the real war OOB you will see that Germany had many units stationed in conquered countries to suppress partisan activity and wait for a possible Allied invasion

schwerpunkt · Post by **schwerpunkt** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:44 am

So, what's the most number of partisans anyone has ever had arrive in the same turn? In a game I'm currently playing as the axis (1944), I just had 4 turn up in the same turn just as winter was ending (2 in Russia - ughh, 1 in Poland and 1 in Yugo). Not complaining

, just interested in seeing who has managed to get 5 or 6

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:52 am

We've also changed the likelihood of partisans appearing being a function of year. So each new year the likelihood increases. So it's natural you see more partisans in 1944 than e. g. in 1941.

Each hex is checked separately so if e. g. Germany has penetrated deep into Russia and manages to keep it till 1944 then you might see a lot of partisans there.

AC67 · Post by **AC67** » Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:48 pm

schwerpunkt wrote:So, what's the most number of partisans anyone has ever had arrive in the same turn? In a game I'm currently playing as the axis (1944), I just had 4 turn up in the same turn just as winter was ending (2 in Russia - ughh, 1 in Poland and 1 in Yugo). Not complaining , just interested in seeing who has managed to get 5 or 6

In my first game against the AI as Axis I had 4 partisan units popping up the same turn in Russia a couple of times. Along with a French partisan unit in one turns the makes five of 'em in one turn. Honestly, four in one turn seemed a little too much to me.

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:40 am

How does all this affect German manpower levels? I've found with all those cities garrisoned, I hit below 75% by late '41.

Between all the extra garrisons plus a couple inf corps for mopping up...seemed to be quite a bit.

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:48 am

Blathergut wrote:How does all this affect German manpower levels? I've found with all those cities garrisoned, I hit below 75% by late '41. Between all the extra garrisons plus a couple inf corps for mopping up...seemed to be quite a bit.

You can always use one or two axis minor infantry corps for partisan control. That way you can free up you better German infantry corps for frontline duties. Also, at the beginning of every year each axis minor country generates a 3-step garrison, infantry corps or mechanized corps. To get these free units up to full strength (i.e., 10-steps) costs only 42% of what it would cost to build a unit from scratch. Also, there units don't impact German manpower levels. They also great for rear area duties.

Partisanen Everywhere!!

Partisanen Everywhere!!

Re: Partisanen Everywhere!!