did we play right

[domblas]

yesterday
that sequence happened. Did we do ok?

http://s274.photobucket.com/albums/jj26 ... ana007.jpg

http://s274.photobucket.com/albums/jj26 ... ana008.jpg

http://s274.photobucket.com/albums/jj26 ... ana009.jpg

[rogerg]

If the break is from two BG then you should split the angle, 45 degrees to each. I suspect the pursuers might then miss the pikes.

[deadtorius]

not sure exactly what happened there, the halberds were auto broke and removed?
I am not sure in the last picture where that large unit came from that is just below the bows but seems larger than the unit of halberds.

So bows flank charged the halberds, the halberds drop 1 cohesion level automatically on contact in the flank.
Looks like they lost a base and are autobroke.
The halberds will rout away from both units it was fighting melee with, and rolls VMD for its flee move. Both enemy units then roll VMD for pursuit and both units must try to maintain contact with the now broken routing halberds. Roll all VMD rolls and then move the fastest unit first, if it is a tie the owning player chooses which pursuer moves first.
At the end of the Joint Action phase the halberds are removed from the table, no further pursuit is necessary.

So I would say no you did not do it right since the routers have to move away at a split angle from both melee opponents, both pursuers must follow the routers and the unit at the top of the pic might have rolled higher VMD and might have blocked the bows pursuit. either way they would have had to follow away from the pikes, but would have ended up in a position to turn towards another flank charge on the pike block by the looks of it.


Actually it looks like the top unit would have pursued into the front of the pike block the impact would have been resolved immediately during that melee phase so an extra fight for that unit, pinning the pkes and allowing the bows to set up for more flank charge mayhem.

[domblas]

thx deadtorius,

u sopposed well. the halberd where fighint in two directions but lost bases so that only one was still alive after the melee. So should it still flee in 45 ° angle or does it flee facing the last enemy in front contact? sorry for the pict took with a cell phone in a dimlight

detail: the bw were fragmented, can they still pursue and hit an enemy BG? We played it like that but looked a bit weird for a frag Bw group.
other detail: pique block were fighting two ennemy BG, one on its left that was already fighting with halberd (and thus did not pursue) and one on top of pict. So the pike block couldn't line up at manoeuvre phase. my question is: as it is, pique are hit on their front corner, so its not a flank charge, but they are already fighting on their front with this bases. So we played it as a flank charge. Did we play it right this time?

[bertalucci]

Looking at the pictures and your later comments.
The halberds auto destructed?
If so no one to pursue.
Fragged bows could not charge anybody.
Next time around the other unit might have been able to flank charge the lower pike block.

If the halberds had to rout then they would have to split the angle between the attacking units and burst through the pikes to their rear (at 45 degrees) disrupting them.
Fragged bows could not pursue or charge and the other unit would have probably contacted the pikes in the flank dropping them another cohesion level.
Bye bye pikes.

[marioslaz]

Remember autobreak troops are not removed when they break, but at the end of JAP. So they must make at least two rout moves.
Remember also when there are more pursuers for the same router, all pursuers must roll VMD, then move first the one which has the longer move. Frag BG can pursue IMO, but this can happen only if they became frag during melee, since frag cannot charge. Also, they could be frag when charged, survived to CT because charged while frag, then won melee (quite rare).

[deadtorius]

So should it still flee in 45 ° angle or does it flee facing the last enemy in front contact?

When fighting two enemy and you break, you rout away from both enemy units on a 45 degree angle, splitting the angle between the two melee opponents.
Basically the halberds would turn 90 degrees to their rear, and then wheel towards the 45 degree angle away from both enemy that routed them and then if possible (depending on the VMD) move forward any MU's they have left. My own experience is that normally by the time you wheel to the proper angle there is little or no move left on the VMD and you usually get caught by the pursuers, but thats personal experience.

As for the fragged bows, they still pursue. Now the odd part is that if during their pursuit they contact fresh enemy it is treated as a charge, but in the section on charges it says that fragged troops can not charge enemy units. Under pursuits it does not list any restrictions on fragged troops making contact with an enemy other than if they do not wish to contcat an enemy unit they may make a cohesion test, if they pass they stop 1 MU away the same as skirmishers do, if not they go into the charge. Perhaps they get a little carried away and might find themselves in a tight spot without thinking first.
Could be we need an author to clear up that one point on fragged pursuing and contacting enemy.

[david53]

So should it still flee in 45 ° angle or does it flee facing the last enemy in front contact?

When fighting two enemy and you break, you rout away from both enemy units on a 45 degree angle, splitting the angle between the two melee opponents.
Basically the halberds would turn 90 degrees to their rear, and then wheel towards the 45 degree angle away from both enemy that routed them and then if possible (depending on the VMD) move forward any MU's they have left. My own experience is that normally by the time you wheel to the proper angle there is little or no move left on the VMD and you usually get caught by the pursuers, but thats personal experience.

As for the fragged bows, they still pursue. Now the odd part is that if during their pursuit they contact fresh enemy it is treated as a charge, but in the section on charges it says that fragged troops can not charge enemy units. Under pursuits it does not list any restrictions on fragged troops making contact with an enemy other than if they do not wish to contcat an enemy unit they may make a cohesion test, if they pass they stop 1 MU away the same as skirmishers do, if not they go into the charge. Perhaps they get a little carried away and might find themselves in a tight spot without thinking first.
Could be we need an author to clear up that one point on fragged pursuing and contacting enemy.

I thought a fragged unit wanting to advance to enemy had to pass a cmt to do so. page 114

[deadtorius]

I thought a fragged unit wanting to advance to enemy had to pass a cmt to do so. page 114

Thats true for a voluntary advance. Under the rules for pursuit it just says that if you were fighting enemy that breaks you pursue, guess when the blood gets up they forget they are not that anxious to be there and off they go. There are no restrictions on disrupted or fragged troops pursuing in the rules, in fact it will be harder to prevent them from pursuing as they need to pass a CMT to stop a pursuit and the -2 for being fragged still applies. guess chasing the enemy puts the fight back in them, until something with some back bone suddenly shows up in front of them.

[babyshark]

Thats true for a voluntary advance. Under the rules for pursuit it just says that if you were fighting enemy that breaks you pursue, guess when the blood gets up they forget they are not that anxious to be there and off they go. There are no restrictions on disrupted or fragged troops pursuing in the rules, in fact it will be harder to prevent them from pursuing as they need to pass a CMT to stop a pursuit and the -2 for being fragged still applies. guess chasing the enemy puts the fight back in them, until something with some back bone suddenly shows up in front of them.

In fact, this is the only way that I can think of that fragged troops can charge enemy. Difficult to engineer; probably not worth it most of the time.

Marc

[pease1]

So bows flank charged the halberds, the halberds drop 1 cohesion level automatically on contact in the flank.
Looks like they lost a base and are autobroke.

Forgive me for adding a new question, but this statement says something that I didn't know/don't understand. Do all troops drop 1 cohesion level for being contacted in the flank, or only some troop types (like heavy foot)? I think I missed this tidbit when reading the rules.

[philqw78]

Forgive me for adding a new question, but this statement says something that I didn't know/don't understand. Do all troops drop 1 cohesion level for being contacted in the flank, or only some troop types (like heavy foot)? I think I missed this tidbit when reading the rules.

Yes, almost. All troops drop a cohesion level if caught in flank or rear by Battle Troops. Only skirmishers drop a cohesion level if caught in flank or rear by skirmishers.

[pease1]

Wow we missed that one, thanks for the information. This will be very helpful in our future games.