Imperial German - Barbarossa - Commanders

whitehorses · Post by **whitehorses** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:51 pm

Was looking for a nifty army in OoF, the Imp Germans looked quite useful;

I came up with 4 Generals, but wasn;t sure on the accuracy as I don't have any books on the Germans, so I have:
Barbarossa - IC
Henry the Lion - TC
Friedrich V - TC
Floris III, Count of Holland - Ally TC

I know that Floris, & his son accompanied Barbarossa on the Crusade, but wasn;t sure on Henry though

Scrumpy · Post by **Scrumpy** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:06 pm

The armoured os do look quite nice for the points.

berthier · Post by **berthier** » Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:04 pm

According to the wikipedia entry, Henry was in exile for not supporting Barbarosa in one of his tries at Lombardy (among other things) at the time of the Crusades and only returned to try and retake his lands after Barbarosa left for the east.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_the_Lion

Scroll down there is a section that addresses Henry specifically in the Encyclopedia Britannica

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/top ... rederick-I

Interesting reading nontheless.

Christopher Anders

whitehorses · Post by **whitehorses** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:38 pm

Drat

Any ideas who I can use for a TC, other than Barbarossa's son, Friedrich V(who accompanied him to the Crusade)?

A nice healthy amount of armoured Off Sp is always a plus

berthier · Post by **berthier** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:30 pm

Do I understand that you only want possible generals who went on crusade with Barbarossa? I might can come up with a couple who were in Italy with him but have not seen much on his crusade commanders.

whitehorses · Post by **whitehorses** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:55 am

Ideally, yes, but if not, then I'll defer to the ill-fated Campaigns against the Lombardy League

Irmin · Post by **Irmin** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:16 pm

This site might help you http://www.earlyblazon.com/ just look under the 3rd Crusade and it lists the knights who were present with their coat of arms as well.

Just looking at ones who could have been present with him I see:
Henri de Brabant
Henry de Limbourg
Frédéric de Souabe
Léopold Babenberg
Louis de Thuringe
Umberto de Savoy
Othon von Wassemberg
and a few others.

Ghaznavid · Post by **Ghaznavid** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:42 pm

Hmm I somehow managed to miss this thread so far.
Anyway from the Historia of Arnsberg (we don't really know the name of the chronist, but he obviously accompanied the Emperor on the crusade), the most important nobles to accompany the emperor where:

(Sorry it's mainly in German, I'm to lazy to convert it)

Der erhabene Kaiser der Römer Friedrich (and his son Friedrich, Herzog von Schwaben)
Bischof Rudolf von Lüttich
Bischof Gottfried von Würzburg
Bischof Diepold von Passau
Konrad von Regensburg
Heinrich von Basel
Martin von Meißen
Arnold von Osnabrück
Erzbischof Haimo von Tarantaise
Bischof Peter von Toul
Hermann von Münster
Abt Isenrich von Admont
Berthold, Herzog von Dalmatien und Markgraf von Istrien
Markgraf Berthold von Vohburg
Markgraf Hermann von Baden
der große Graf Florenz von Holland (with his son and his Brother Otto, Graf von Bentheim)
Graf Heinrich von Sayn
Graf Heinrich von Sponheim (and his brother Simon, Graf Heinrich von Kuik)
Graf Dietrich von Wied
Graf Engelbert von Berg (died on the march by Kubin in Hungary)
Graf Heinrich von Saarbrücken
Graf Friedrich von Abenberg
Graf Poppo von Henneberg

Swabia:
Graf Konrad von Ottingen
Graf Ulrich von Kiburg (and his brother Graf Albrecht von Dillingen)
Graf Berthold von Neuenburg
Graf Heinrich von Veringen

Bavaria:
Graf Gebhard von Dollnstein
Graf Siegfried von Lebenau
Graf Konrad von Dornberg
Graf Kuno von Falkenstein

Saxony:
Graf Adolf von Schaumburg
Graf Christian von Altenburg
Graf Liutolf von Hallermund (and his brother Willibrand)
Graf Burchard von Woltingerode

Graf Robert von Nassau (and his kin Graf Walram)
Heinrich, (the younger) Graf von Diez
Graf von Salm
Gaubert von Aspermon
Burggraf von Magdeburg, Widukind von Schwalenberg
Liutger von Wohldenberg

Austria
Vogt Friedrich von Berg
Otto von Ramsberg
Kärnten and Steiermark:
Liutold von Walstein
Albrecht von Wieselberg

Bavaria
Diepold von Leuchtenberg
Heinrich von Grunnenberg
Hadubrand von Arnsberg
Bodo von Massing
Konrad von Harbach
Albrecht von Bruckberg
Arnold von Hornberg
Berenger von Gamburg
Swabia and Elsass:
Konrad von Schwarzberg
Hermann von Hirzeck
Berthold von Königsburg
Heinrich von Isenburg

Franconia
Albrecht von Hildenburg
Albrecht vonGrumbach
Albrecht von Hohenlohe
Eberhard and Reinhold von Reifenberg
Heinrich von Hagen

It is a bit messed up because the chronist sorts the nobles by rank (with the Bishops ranked highest) and partially by region.

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:10 pm

Well, it was a crusade after all. Shouldn't the ecclesials get top billing?

footslogger · Post by **footslogger** » Sun May 02, 2010 12:00 am

Nice. Is there a source with a list like this for Frederick II at Castelnuova?

Ghaznavid wrote:Hmm I somehow managed to miss this thread so far.
Anyway from the Historia of Arnsberg (we don't really know the name of the chronist, but he obviously accompanied the Emperor on the crusade), the most important nobles to accompany the emperor where:

(Sorry it's mainly in German, I'm to lazy to convert it)

Der erhabene Kaiser der Römer Friedrich (and his son Friedrich, Herzog von Schwaben)
Bischof Rudolf von Lüttich
Bischof Gottfried von Würzburg
Bischof Diepold von Passau
Konrad von Regensburg
Heinrich von Basel
Martin von Meißen
Arnold von Osnabrück
Erzbischof Haimo von Tarantaise
Bischof Peter von Toul
Hermann von Münster
Abt Isenrich von Admont
Berthold, Herzog von Dalmatien und Markgraf von Istrien
Markgraf Berthold von Vohburg
Markgraf Hermann von Baden
der große Graf Florenz von Holland (with his son and his Brother Otto, Graf von Bentheim)
Graf Heinrich von Sayn
Graf Heinrich von Sponheim (and his brother Simon, Graf Heinrich von Kuik)
Graf Dietrich von Wied
Graf Engelbert von Berg (died on the march by Kubin in Hungary)
Graf Heinrich von Saarbrücken
Graf Friedrich von Abenberg
Graf Poppo von Henneberg

Swabia:
Graf Konrad von Ottingen
Graf Ulrich von Kiburg (and his brother Graf Albrecht von Dillingen)
Graf Berthold von Neuenburg
Graf Heinrich von Veringen

Bavaria:
Graf Gebhard von Dollnstein
Graf Siegfried von Lebenau
Graf Konrad von Dornberg
Graf Kuno von Falkenstein

Saxony:
Graf Adolf von Schaumburg
Graf Christian von Altenburg
Graf Liutolf von Hallermund (and his brother Willibrand)
Graf Burchard von Woltingerode

Graf Robert von Nassau (and his kin Graf Walram)
Heinrich, (the younger) Graf von Diez
Graf von Salm
Gaubert von Aspermon
Burggraf von Magdeburg, Widukind von Schwalenberg
Liutger von Wohldenberg

Austria
Vogt Friedrich von Berg
Otto von Ramsberg
Kärnten and Steiermark:
Liutold von Walstein
Albrecht von Wieselberg

Bavaria
Diepold von Leuchtenberg
Heinrich von Grunnenberg
Hadubrand von Arnsberg
Bodo von Massing
Konrad von Harbach
Albrecht von Bruckberg
Arnold von Hornberg
Berenger von Gamburg
Swabia and Elsass:
Konrad von Schwarzberg
Hermann von Hirzeck
Berthold von Königsburg
Heinrich von Isenburg

Franconia
Albrecht von Hildenburg
Albrecht vonGrumbach
Albrecht von Hohenlohe
Eberhard and Reinhold von Reifenberg
Heinrich von Hagen

It is a bit messed up because the chronist sorts the nobles by rank (with the Bishops ranked highest) and partially by region.

BlackPrince · Post by **BlackPrince** » Sun May 02, 2010 7:15 am

This is what I have a copy of;

downloaded from www.earlyblazon.com 1/2
Imperial Army, 3rd Crusade, by Mark Benton
Frederick Barbarossa, western Roman Emperor, King of the Romans, King of
Burgundy, nominally the King of Italy
Frederick von Hohenstaufen, duke of Swabia
Markward von Anweiler, Imperial Marshal
Markward von Neuenburg, Imperial Chamberlian
Rupert, count of Nassau and his kinsmen, Count Walram
Henry, count of Dietz
Hermann II von Katzenellenbogen, bishop of Munster
Rudolph von Zahringen, bishop-prince of Liege
Gottfried Ivon Spitzenberg-Helfenstein, bishop of Wuzburg
Diepold von Berg, bishop of Passau
Conrad, bishop of Regensburg
Heinrich I von Horburg, bishop-prince of Basel
Martin, bishop of Meisen
Arno von Altena, bishop of Osnabruck and count of Altena
Archbishop of Tarentaise
Pierre de Brizey, bishop-count of Toul
Abbot Isenric of Admont
Berthold, duke of Dalmatia and Meran (Croatia), margrave of Istria
Berthold, margrave of Vohburg
Hermann von Zahringen, margrave of Baden
Florent III, count of Holland
Heinrich I von Sayn, count of Sayn
Walram von Sponheim, count of Sponheim
Heinrich II von Arnsberg, count of Cuyk and Arnsberg (Low Countries)
Dietrich von Wied, count of Wied
Adolf V von Berg, count of Berg
Simon II von Saarbrucken, count of Saarbrucken
Henry I de Bar, count of Bar-le-Duc
Count of Abenberg
Poppo VI von Henneberg, count of Henneberg
Heinrich von Altenberg, count of Altenberg
From Swabia
Frederick I von Ottingen, count of Ottingen
Count of Kyburg
Count of Dillingen
Count of Nimburg
Count of Vohringen
downloaded from www.earlyblazon.com 2/2
From Bavaria
Count of Dollnstein
Count of Liebenau
Count of Dornberg
Werner II von Bolanden, count of Falkenstein
From Saxony
Adolf, count of Schaumburg and Holstein
Maurice, count of Oldenburg
Wildbrand II, count of Hallermund
Count of Woltigerode
From the Duchy of Brabant
Henry I de Louvain, duke of Lothier and Brabant
Thierry IV de Cleves, count of Cleves
Othon II de Trazegnies, baron of Trazegnies
Othon von Wassemberg, count of Guelder and Zutphen
Burggrave of Magdeburg
Frederick von Berg, vogt (advocate) of Metz
Estimation of forces
Knights- 4,200
Junkers, Ministriales, Sergeants, and other heavy cavalry- 17,000
Foot sergeants (Swabian swordsmen, Burgundian spearmen, Lowland archers) -
perhaps as many as 50,000
Non-combatants and support troops- 10,000
Those that joined later
Conrad Otto, duke of Bohemia and Moravia
Godfrey, duke of Lower Lorraine
Henry III, duke of Limburg and his son eldest son and heir Waleran
Otto II von Henneberg, bishop-prince of Speyer
Rogier de Waurin, bishop-count of Cambrai
Louis von Thuringen, landgrave of Thuringia
Leopold von Babenburg, duke of Austria and Styria
Perhaps as many as 800 knights, 3,400 other cavalry, and 12,000 infantry

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Sun May 02, 2010 2:15 pm

Surely if you are talking about Barbarossa then the commanders should be:

Barbarossa
Von Leeb
Von Bok
Von Rundstedt

Sadista · Post by **Sadista** » Mon May 03, 2010 7:22 pm

I agree with Dave, but only if we can use Elephants

Ghaznavid · Post by **Ghaznavid** » Tue May 04, 2010 6:33 pm

footslogger wrote:Nice. Is there a source with a list like this for Frederick II at Castelnuova?

Castel Nuova was build after Friedrichs death. Maybe you had the Battle of Cortenuova (27 November 1237) in mind? If so, afraid not.

The best we have are probably the notes from Pietro della Vigna (unless there is some Italian source I'm not aware of), who are not that detailed.

footslogger · Post by **footslogger** » Tue May 04, 2010 8:01 pm

Yes cortenuova.

In Armies of 1066-1300 it lists the italian communes who contributed knights on friedrich's side so I was hoping there was more info out there somewhere.