Louis X1V French - armoured pikemen

marshalney2000 · Post by **marshalney2000** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:58 pm

Just checking my sources on this and think we might be premature in taking away the armour from line regiments during much of this period. My references would suggest that the dropping of armour across the board was very gradual and was not necessarily encouraged from the top. It would seem that this was the same with the pike where the ratio was set at 10 out of 55 in 1692 but at the beginning of the WOSS it was often still one in four. It was only in 1703/1704 that Villeroi took away all the pikes. In the publication from the pike and shot society the comment on breastplates is "Pikemen would have worn breastplates at the beginning of the period (1688) but probably lost them along the way to end up in standard uniform by the turn of the century." Interestingly it wa sonly the Swiss Guards who are shown as wearing the breastplate right up to the abolition of pikes. Perhaps the list should show an either or. Interestingly Reiver Castings who are quite hot on their research in this period have their french pikemen in armour as doi the new Copplestone Glor yof the Sun range albeit this is designed for the earlier part of our list.
John

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:14 pm

Which bit, or bits, of Louis XIV's reign are you talking about here?

On a general point it is clear, IMO, that for "uncomfortable" pieces of kit - pikes and armour in the main - they were often discarded by the soldiers regardless of what the official position was. Hence we have situations such as the Swedish general in 1635 writing back to Sweden to say that there is no need to send armour to the army (because the soldiers aren't wearing it).

marshalney2000 · Post by **marshalney2000** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:06 pm

The period of the phasing out of armour seems to be from 1687 when dropping pikes totally was considered but abandoned until 1704 when the Swiss Guards were the last to give up their armpour and their pikes. I agree with you that some units may have abondoned earlier as did most units in the ECW. I was merely suggesting a player could eithe rhave his line regiment pikes armoured or unarmoured depending on whether he considered it cost effective. Presumably the same decision Line colonels faced in monetary terms. Presuambly if the player was fielding Garde Francais rather than the Awiss he could have the same option.
John

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:05 pm

marshalney2000 wrote:The period of the phasing out of armour seems to be from 1687 when dropping pikes totally was considered but abandoned until 1704 when the Swiss Guards were the last to give up their armpour and their pikes. I agree with you that some units may have abondoned earlier as did most units in the ECW. I was merely suggesting a player could eithe rhave his line regiment pikes armoured or unarmoured depending on whether he considered it cost effective. Presumably the same decision Line colonels faced in monetary terms. Presuambly if the player was fielding Garde Francais rather than the Awiss he could have the same option.
John

But if the soldiers discarded the armour regardless of their general's wishes (as it appears they did) then the player should not have the choice.

i.e. He can choose to provide the armour and pay the points for it, but the troops will discard it and hence count as Unarmoured!

marshalney2000 · Post by **marshalney2000** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:58 pm

I think I will let you explain that one to the punters "Yes of coarse you can pay for armour but will only count as protected. Didn't french officers inspect their men before action or was it only guards officers?
Must confess my real reason is that I love the Copplestone French armoured pikeman figure in 28mm and would be a shame not to have on the table!!
Seriously though I just think there is reason for doubt.
John