Amendment to Interpenetration Rule

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:37 pm

We all know its wrong, well most of us. What is the cure. We know about the LF bridge across bad terrain. Really bad. Moving your horse thru your LF then the LF through the horse. Really bad. There are also other things thrown up that have not been mentioned yet.

Consider

The green BG is a target of shock cavalry red as it is only a 90 degree wheel and by bursting through orange they will reach. This is not an otional move if the red cav fail a cmt. This could be done a number of other ways. But is this or is this not a played for position. I have certainly had my lancers behind other BG hoping they would fail a CMT. Maybe not in such an extreme situation.

What can be done?

image corrected

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:41 pm

No interpenetration during charges is all ready a rule...

Madcam.

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:43 pm

Doesn't the diagram showing shock mounted charging through LF show that the mounted do their charge move and the LF being moved backwards to make room? Why do the cavalry get to move further than 5MU in such a situation? The 5MU move, after all, is sufficient to clear the LF.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:44 pm

Shock mounted must test not to burst through as stated they are shock cav
(in reply to Madcam)

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:46 pm

grahambriggs wrote:Doesn't the diagram showing shock mounted charging through LF show that the mounted do their charge move and the LF being moved backwards to make room? Why do the cavalry get to move further than 5MU in such a situation? The 5MU move, after all, is sufficient to clear the LF.

The LF are moved back if there is not room, here there is a 30mm gap and those entering a BG pass through it.

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:49 pm

On reflection, are you saying they fail the CMT to NOT charge, thus bursting thru?

If so, then why doesn't page 48 come into play?

Basically move the Cv 5 inches, if this isn't enough to contact the Green BG then shift the LF back behind the CV?

If this can't be completed, then the move is disallowed....

Madcam.

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:51 pm

philqw78 wrote:
grahambriggs wrote:Doesn't the diagram showing shock mounted charging through LF show that the mounted do their charge move and the LF being moved backwards to make room? Why do the cavalry get to move further than 5MU in such a situation? The 5MU move, after all, is sufficient to clear the LF.
The LF are moved back if there is not room, here there is a 30mm gap and those entering a BG pass through it.

But there isn't room the charge goes 5MU and there isn't room for the LF because the cavalry bases are there (which is the same "not room" as the diagram shows, it's just that in the diagram the mounted can't move their full MU cos they've hit the enemy).

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:55 pm

madcam2us wrote:If so, then why doesn't page 48 come into play?

Madcam.

Perhaps because I can't bring my rules to work.

I thought that if there was not room on the far side the interpenetrated BG moved back.

But if you are saying that if it cannot get through the charge is cancelled why can this not be used for normal moves, where if they cannot get through the move is cancelled. It would save a lot of pain.

madcam2us · Post by **madcam2us** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:01 pm

The move PRIOR to any CMTs etc. has to be within 5 inch (for Cv charges) in order for them to need to test anyways.

If >5" then no test even if one uses the TimeWarp move.

If <5" then CMT not to charge, if fail move the 5", move the LF back to make room, if unable to move the LF back, the move is disallowed...

Madcam.

lawrenceg · Post by **lawrenceg** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:17 pm

The rules for busting through are not the same as normal interpenetration. You don't get any extra distance.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:26 pm

Yes I'm happily back at home now with my book and its charge range, not charge reach. Which at least is good.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:15 am

Quick point here the green unit does not start in front of the red cav so it is not really in its charge sphere is it? I thought you had to be at least partially in front to be a charge target.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:24 am

deadtorius wrote:Quick point here the green unit does not start in front of the red cav so it is not really in its charge sphere is it? I thought you had to be at least partially in front to be a charge target.

This I have discovered works differently than I thought so the interpenetration does not happen,
but
any unit in charge range is a target (if it can be contacted with a wheel of 90 degrees or less) not just those to front.

spikemesq · Post by **spikemesq** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:02 pm

philqw78 wrote:
deadtorius wrote:Quick point here the green unit does not start in front of the red cav so it is not really in its charge sphere is it? I thought you had to be at least partially in front to be a charge target.
This I have discovered works differently than I thought so the interpenetration does not happen,
but
any unit in charge range is a target (if it can be contacted with a wheel of 90 degrees or less) not just those to front.

Interesting point.

Has anyone worked out in spiffy diagrams (like the Nudawad*&*$ gang used to do for DBM) the distance of 90 deg wheels for LH/Cv/Kn 2-wide and 3-wide? Could be a useful shorthand for speedy measurements.

Raw math incoming:

2-wide = square root of (2(80mmx80mm)) = 113.14mm
3-wide = square root of (2(120mmx120mm) = 169.70mm

That leaves Kn/Cat/HCh out of the picture, they cannot wheel 90 degrees with 100mm move.

Cv/LCh/LF get a whopping 12mm of post wheel move.

LH have 62mm after a 90 degree wheel.

The more you know . . . .

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:37 pm

Which is all great - but you don't measure wheels like that.

You measure the starting point and the ending point of the unit. As long as the wheel is "proper" (i.e. corner remains stationery, no sideways movement etc etc) then you don't measure the distance taken to do the wheel.

lawrenceg · Post by **lawrenceg** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:39 pm

dave_r wrote:Which is all great - but you don't measure wheels like that.

You measure the starting point and the ending point of the unit. As long as the wheel is "proper" (i.e. corner remains stationery, no sideways movement etc etc) then you don't measure the distance taken to do the wheel.

I think you are getting mixed up with DBMM Dave (which does work like that).

Bottom of FOG Page 43 tells you how to measure distance moved "during the wheel" not for the whole move.

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:01 pm

That's not how RBS plays it.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:34 pm

I thought you'd have learnt about rules authors by now ...

david53 · Post by **david53** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:08 pm

dave_r wrote:Which is all great - but you don't measure wheels like that.

You measure the starting point and the ending point of the unit. As long as the wheel is "proper" (i.e. corner remains stationery, no sideways movement etc etc) then you don't measure the distance taken to do the wheel.

Your right it is says on page 43 point to point.

spikemesq · Post by **spikemesq** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:09 pm

Right, so it is straight line movement for the wheel, and the remainder to follow.