BJR rules question

[ftgcritt2]

I know there has been discussion before regarding ships occupying enemy ports, but I have an interesting dilemma. I am playing a BJR game as the Axis, and my troops are currently smashing across North Africa. I have captured Alexandria and Port Said, but my opponent left a naval unit in each of the ports. Since I didnt have the means to expel the enemy ships AND pursue the routing British 8th Army, I decided to leave the ships alone and go after the ground troops. My question is this: can I still count these ports in when calculating my supply capacity under the Malta supply rule? Earlier threads have debated whether the ability to occupy enemy ports is a glitch or not.

[rkr1958]

I know there has been discussion before regarding ships occupying enemy ports, but I have an interesting dilemma. I am playing a BJR game as the Axis, and my troops are currently smashing across North Africa. I have captured Alexandria and Port Said, but my opponent left a naval unit in each of the ports. Since I didnt have the means to expel the enemy ships AND pursue the routing British 8th Army, I decided to leave the ships alone and go after the ground troops. My question is this: can I still count these ports in when calculating my supply capacity under the Malta supply rule? Earlier threads have debated whether the ability to occupy enemy ports is a glitch or not.

Looking at this from a practical point of view I would say that you could NOT count these ports until enemy ships have left or been eliminated. You can; however, attack these ships with anything and everything you can bring to bear against them including ground troops.

[ftgcritt2]

But thats just the thing. I CANT bring everything available to bear on the ships, because they're technically sitting in my port. The game engine recognizes me as the owner of the hexes, so I cannot use any air power against them. So they effectively get a defensive BONUS for sitting in an enemy port!

Take a look at this thread: http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... nemy+ports
In it, Johan(one of the game's developers) says that the only reason ships are not immediately kicked out of ports that are captured is that it could potentially set off a chain reaction of of units bumping away and blocking each others paths combined with invisible subs. I'm going to go out on a limb here and agree with the game engine and call the ports mine.

[rkr1958]

But thats just the thing. I CANT bring everything available to bear on the ships, because they're technically sitting in my port. The game engine recognizes me as the owner of the hexes, so I cannot use any air power against them. So they effectively get a defensive BONUS for sitting in an enemy port!

Take a look at this thread: http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... nemy+ports
In it, Johan(one of the game's developers) says that the only reason ships are not immediately kicked out of ports that are captured is that it could potentially set off a chain reaction of of units bumping away and blocking each others paths combined with invisible subs. I'm going to go out on a limb here and agree with the game engine and call the ports mine.

O.K. The good news is that in BJRModVer2.00 you won't have to worry about making this call. The game engine will make it for you. Though, I'm don't know which way it would call it.

[pk867]

Hi,
In the BJR 2.0 that is coming You cannot attack with air units only ground units may attack.

pk867

[ftgcritt2]

I know. I'm pretty excited about 2.0. When is it going to be ready?

[rkr1958]

I know. I'm pretty excited about 2.0. When is it going to be ready?

We're shooting for October. I believe we've implemented in some form or fashion all code and map changes. Paul is in the process of making new unit graphics that are country and technology appropriate. That is, no more UK tank icons used for an USA tank unit. Paul will be able to give a much better and much more detailed description of this.

What's left is beta testing and bug fixes. As you can see in viewtopic.php?p=102693#102693 we've played a number of games through to and past the fall of France. The mod looks very balanced through that point. We need to get games through to the invasion of Russia and beyond to check out and if, necessary, tweak game balance.

BJRModVer2.00 will require players to rethink a number of their current strategies and timelines. Major impacts on these are the map changes, winter in Europe (i.e., hex row 50 and below), transport and invasion models. The transport and invasion maximum capacities are now a function of surface ship and industrial technology levels and are no longer year dependent. If you want to increase either or both these capacities you will need to invest in research in either or both these areas. Used invasion capacity now regenerates at a country dependent rate ranging from 1 capacity point every three turns for Italy to 1 every turn for the USA up to the maximum capacity. Each transport lost reduces a country's transport capacity by 1. Lost transports also regenerates up to the maximum at a country dependent rate. Garrisons can now (again) be transported. However; if you use transport garrisons as fodder you will now pay the price in lost capacity.

Both invasion and transport capacity can be exceeded and there are no limits on how much you may exceed it. But, you pay an increasing exponentially price to do so. With respect to invasion the first landing to exceed it cost 35 PPs, the second 70 PPs, the third 105 PPs and so on. With respect to transport, the first 3 to exceed it cost 4 PPs for each transport, the next 3 costs 8 PPs for each transport, the next 3 cost 12 PPs for each transport, and so. You can see that the cost to exceed transport capacity is much less putative that invasion capacity. For example, if a country had 7 transports over their capacity the cost would be 4 + 4 + 4 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 12 = 44 PPs. But three invasions over capacity would cost a whopping 35 + 70 + 105 = 210 PPs.

The parameters associated with the transport and invasion models and all other models we've implemented are defined in the general.txt file. Thus, this allows players that wish to change these values. That's the upside. The downside is that two players may be playing with and using different values. This could happen for obvious reasons, such as a player is cheating; but more likely that a player changes values for one game and forgets to change them back when they started another game. To help with this we're looking at adding a check in CEaW at the beginning of each turn to compare the values used by your opponent for his last turn in a given game against those that you have in your general.txt file. If a difference is found then the player will be notified.

What I've just described in this post is only a small fraction of the changes that we've made in BJRModVer2.00.

[Celeborn]

For Hastati & co. My apology for these 11th hour suggestions for BJR 2.0 but I'm hoping that late is better than never. I hope that as least some will be easy to accommodate while others may admittedly be beyond the scope of what you want to attempt at this point. Regardless, I am very much looking forward to 2.0 and pray that it will be available for Mac!

1) Tech Upgrades: When units are eligible for upgrades it would be great to see which upgrades they are eligible for vice the generic X/Y formula. Better still would be the ability to select which upgrades to apply.

2) Leader Assignment: Suggest that assigning leaders no longer count as moving the receiving unit. (don't see any historical justification for this)

3) Create "Undo" button to allow for correcting erroneous moves. Undo would not be available if movement included combat or provided intelligence on unoccupied hexes.

4) Upgrade Images for Motorized: Poor motorized units get no love in this department yet are exceedingly important. Suggest the following six images to reflect how motorized units often came to take on an armored recon role:
Level 1 original image (infantry + truck)
Level 2 (multiple trucks)
Level 3 (truck + halftrack)
Level 4 (multiple halftracks)
Level 5 (halftrack + armored car)
Level 6 (multiple armored cars)

5) Elite units for Soviets, Germany and UK (an idea posted a couple months ago that has since been revised)

Soviet (Shock)
Each year beginning Nov 1941* Allied player may purchase up to 2 infantry and 2 motorized at the following cost:
Infantry 40
Motorized 50
Effect: +1 Shock, +1 Attack
*could the Siberian reserves (now with +1 Shock and +1 Attack) that normally started on map instead become available via the Force Pool?

Soviet (Guards)
Each year beginning 1942 Allied player may purchase 1 infantry, 1 motorized, and 1 armor at the following cost:
Infantry 45
Motorized 55
Armor 95
Effect: all units +1 in all categories

German (SS)
Each year beginning 1941 Allied player may purchase 1 infantry, 1 motorized, and 1 armor at the following cost:
Infantry 45
Motorized 55
Armor 95
Effect: all units +1 in all categories

Britain (Guards)
Beginning 1944 Allied player may purchase up to 2 infantry, 2 motorized, and 2 armor at the following cost:
Infantry 45
Motorized 55
Armor 95
Effect: all units +1 in all categories

Thanks for your consideration of the above.

Steve

[pk867]

Hi,

Your suggestions are desirable, we will note them and see if they can be incorporated in a future release.

1) This would be a programming challenge.

2) This represents a unit receiving a new commander. In real life the unit would receive orders to stand down to await their new commander. He has to come in get his staff in place, review the troops, material, and what improvements the unit needs. So 1 turn is not unrealistic.

3) This has been suggested before. I think this is planned for a future release if possible without becoming to tiresome. I believe on the future release todo list of possibly allowing an incremental repair to a unit instead of an all or nothing proposition. Then again it comes down to not making slow the game down and a workable solution.

4) Motorized unit images, this is part of the overall update to the game. We have images that match the country that owns the units. For naval units we have the capital ship (BB) unique to each major power also we have matched the colored stripe to the counter colors to easily distinguish between countries . Air units, AFV's are all updated to the nationality they belong. The suggestion of multiple trucks and or armoured cars are difficult since the image is 32 x 32 at zoom level 2. So that is why there is only one vehicle image. we plan to have 3 levels of updates.

5) This maybe for a future release, but the problem is allowing for more units then the game allows now for ground units.

I think you will like the Mod. It will be like getting a new game.

pk867

[rkr1958]

1) Tech Upgrades: When units are eligible for upgrades it would be great to see which upgrades they are eligible for vice the generic X/Y formula. Better still would be the ability to select which upgrades to apply.

The documentation associated with our mod includes a research PDF document that shows what upgrades each unit is entitled to based on current tech levels. This has been there since our initial release of the mod and will be there is our next release (i.e., v2.00).

2) Leader Assignment: Suggest that assigning leaders no longer count as moving the receiving unit. (don't see any historical justification for this)

I agree with Paul's answer on this. By the way, if a leader is recalled from a unit the unit can still move and fight that turn. So, I think this reinforces Paul's reasoning as to why a unit can't move on the turn it gets a new leader.

3) Create "Undo" button to allow for correcting erroneous moves. Undo would not be available if movement included combat or provided intelligence on unoccupied hexes.

This has been discussed several times before. Besides the complicated programming logic and algorithms required to determine if a move provided intelligence or not one can make an argument that every move provides intelligence. For example, if you move a unit and that move uncovers NO additional enemy units this provides useful intelligence. If you could undo that move what would prevent an opponent from moving and undoing a move until it found the enemy. Note that a player could always do this by making a move then ending the game, reloading the game and making another move. However; this is cheating. But, if you had an undo button then players could do this within the letter of the rules (i.e., without cheating) but, in my opinion, outside the spirit of the rules. We all make unintentional moves. I just chalk that up to the confusion and randomness of war.

4) Upgrade Images for Motorized: Poor motorized units get no love in this department yet are exceedingly important.

We have. Paul has created a wonderful set of historical images for nearly all units (including minor countries) at all tech levels. Also, his map changes are stunning! You can see the glaciers in Greenland. Like Paul said v2.00 will be like getting a different game.

5) Elite units for Soviets, Germany and UK (an idea posted a couple months ago that has since been revised)

The CEaW game engine only allows a fix number of unit types. All of those except one (heavy tanks) are currently being used. It would be a MAJOR undertaking to increase the number of unit types.

[trulster]

How about a button that tags "automatic intercept" off for a unit? Sometimes you just dont want to have your carriers or low on strength fighters intercept.

BTW just played the existing mod, and I realise the AI is not part of it and in general very hard to program, but it seems especially for the Axis it does not work well. Even w giving Axis a + advantage the French held on until August 41 and in Russia the Germans only focused on center and let themselves be pincered in a giant pocket, having almost nothing to guard in north and south. Looks like total conquest in 43.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

You can click on a unit and then hit the S key. This sets the unit in sentry mode. If a fighter or CV is in sentry mode it will NOT intercept regardless of strength. To take a unit off the sentry mode you just click on the unit. This functionality is programmed into the BJR-mod (from v1.05 I think and will also be part of v2.00). This is particularly important in 1940 after the fall of France. Now the British fighters can remain in Britain without being constantly lured into interceptions while the Germans bombard London etc.

[trulster]

Aha, thx, I saw some game port and they talked about putting units on sentry so I realised I had missed something somewhere. Great and useful addition to the game! However, I guess you still cannot move a CV and then put it on sentry, cause when moved it cannot be accessed... anyway this is better than nothing.

[rkr1958]

However, I guess you still cannot move a CV and then put it on sentry, cause when moved it cannot be accessed... anyway this is better than nothing.

You can if you hit the "S" key right after it finishes moving. The same is true for rebasing air units. However; you can only put these units on sentry right after they move. If you click on another unit, or hex, then that ability is lost.

[rkr1958]

Just to get folks a feeling for the scope and progression of our mod:

BJRModVer1.00 (original "official" release): 12.4-MB

BJRModVer1.05 (current "unoffical" release): 41.8-MB

BJRModVer2.00b11 (current beta version available only to the beta testers): 103.4-MB

[darkmatter]

Just to get folks a feeling for the scope and progression of our mod:

BJRModVer1.00 (original "official" release): 12.4-MB

BJRModVer1.05 (current "unoffical" release): 41.8-MB

BJRModVer2.00b11 (current beta version available only to the beta testers): 103.4-MB

any release date forBJRMod? love to know the changes

[rkr1958]

Just to get folks a feeling for the scope and progression of our mod:

BJRModVer1.00 (original "official" release): 12.4-MB

BJRModVer1.05 (current "unoffical" release): 41.8-MB

BJRModVer2.00b11 (current beta version available only to the beta testers): 103.4-MB

any release date forBJRMod? love to know the changes

October - November. There's a whole host of changes. I don't have access to the list right now. I'll try to post it tonight when I get home, or Borger, Tim or Paul can if they're so inclined and can get to it before I can.

[rkr1958]

I just slapped something together from my documentation and emails trying to capture the changes we've made in v2.00. This is a very rough draft but I wanted to try to convey the scope of the changes that we've made. We're currently in beta testing and bug fix mode.

Map Changes -
v106- introduced terrain changes in the following countries Norway, Ireland, Britain, France, Spain, Italy, The Balkans, Greece, West North Africa to allow Free French territory.
v200- changes to map for the return of transportation loops, terrain changes to Libya, Egypt, Irag terrain updated and the addition of Persian Gulf in Iraq
v200a- map now has better representation of US Eastcoast, changed minimaps for warpanel to match the larger map.
v200b- updated Greenland and Iceland.
v200c- Terrain change between Sweden and Finland to add land bridge.
v200d- Extensive terrain changes to Russia, updated rivers in Britain, France, Germany, Poland, Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran
v200e- Changed Maginot / Siegfried Lines
v200f- Added new terrain type Deserthills. This is used exclusively in Africa, North Africa, Middle East to help facilitate new supply rules for these territories
v200g- Altered position of Britain / Ireland and overall appearance of Islands to the appearance on actual maps.

Winter Effects in Europe (Hex Row 50 and Below). Ground units movement and attack are reduced.

Added morale reduction for forces of countries that are invaded of 10 to 20%. Added a morale reduction of 20% for all Allied units in France on the turn that Belgium is invaded.

Added Airbases (Greenland, Iceland, Scapa Flow, Gibraltar, Malta, Azores, Rhodes, Isle of Man, Banvecula and Stornoway. Airbases can only be occupied by friendly air units. In the case of Scapa Flow, Gibraltar and Malta airbases change owners if their adjacent land hex is conquered. What happens to an air unit that refuses to leave the airbase after its owning hex is captured needs to be tested.

New transport and amphibious model. Transport and amphibious capacity are now defined by the following formulas:

Transport Capacity = A0 + floor((A1*SurfaceShipsTech + A2*IndustryTech)/A3).
A0, A1, A2, A3 are defined through the general.txt file for each country and are currently set (for all countries) to:
A0 = 1, A1=2, A2=1 and A3=2.

Invasion Capacity = B0 + floor((B1*SurfaceShipsTech + B2*IndustryTech)/B3).
B0, B1, B2, B3 are defined through the general.txt file for each country and are currently set (for all countries) to:
B0 = 1, B1=2, B2=1 and B3=3

Transports that are sunk reduce the number below the capacity given above. They regenerate at a country variable rate, which ranges 1 per turn for the US and 1 per every 3 turns for Germany. These rates are defined in the general.txt file.

Used amphibious capacity also regenerates at a variable rate, which is set in the general.txt file. Currently, these rates are the same as the sunk transport regeneration rates.

German starts with three u-boat flotillas and one strategic bomber.

US gets a strategic bombers at start.

UK fleets in the Med are "deployed" when Egypt and / or Italy enters.

Supply range is 5 hexes in North Africa / Middle East

Changed the transport and invasion rules so France has it’s own transport and invasion pool. This means they don’t share anything with Britain. They use their own pool and pay for their own over use. This is also changed in the production panel at the top.

Changed the rail capacity system so key cities now contribute to the rail cap. Industry tech will increase the rail cap and bombardment of the key cities can reduce it. You don’t gain rail cap by capturing enemy rail cap cities (exception Paris and Rome), but you deny these points to the enemy

Added rail cap on the map for cities with rail cap. This makes it very easy to see the current rail cap. It changes dynamically if the rail cap city is bombarded or when damage is repaired. Also added info about current and map rail cap for a city in the hex info panel to the left.

Added tooltip for all fields in the production panel including how much oil and PP’s you collected this turn and the rail cap limit for each side.

Moved all hardcoded hexes into general.txt so we can change the hex locations from this file instead of changing game.class

Updated the map and all scenarios because I changed the location of Ruhr to not make it hide the rail cap for Essen.

Fixed a bug in the 1941.scn. Yugoslavia is now not flagged as conquered.

Re-enabled support for scenarios other than 1939 (Game.class)

Update winter status when loading a scenario file (Game.class)

Build additional starting commanders for non-1939 scenarios (Game.class, Global.class)

Give the USSR an additional commander when it activates in the 1941 scenario (Game.class)

Spawn most British Med fleet units upon Italian activation (Game.class)

Only display the North African supply dialog if Axis are over capacity (Game.class)

Only display the transport capacity dialog if the player's faction is over capacity (Game.class)

Calculate transport and invasion limits based on current surface ship and industry tech levels (Game.class)

Start scenarios with non-zero labs and tech progress loaded from labs_bought.txt and research_progress.txt (LabsBought.class,
ResearchPartialAttributes.class, Game.class, Technology.class, Global.class, GameSetupPanel.class)

Temporarily reduce a country's transport capacity when one of their transported units is destroyed (Game.class, Country.class)

Use a variable rate to regenerate lost transports and invasion capacity (Game.class, Country.class)

New Desert Hills terrain type (Game.class, Hex.class, LandHex.class, WaterHex.class, DesertHillsHex.class, Unit.class)

Display transport, invasion, and North African supply limits in the main war window (Game.class, GameState.class, Country.class, ProductionPanel2.class)

The research difficulty factor for different tech areas is now settable in general.txt (Global.class, Research.class)

Support additional unit images for different tech levels (Unit.class, Global.class, Armour.class)

Exempt air units from movement reduction due to low supply (Unit.class)

Fixed an issue where a unit's tech-level/upgrade-status is not visible against the NATO icons for some minor powers (MapCanvas.class)

Reduced the severity of the movement penalty for mechanized infantry units in Russian winter (Hex.class)

Fixed some of the hard-coded hex indexes used for convoy blockage detection (Game.class)

Ffix a Java exception reported by Victor related to minor power reinforcements (Game.class)

Include the new cities of Turin and Ancona when determining Italian surrender criteria (Game.class)

Increase the partisan spawning rate with each succeeding year (Game.class)

Use the full partisan spawning rate for for USSR, France and Yugoslavia even after they are conquered (Game.class)

Strategic bombers bombarding a resource or city hex with a fighter in the hex will now inflict damage on the
resource after air combat instead of trying to attack the fighter. That means we no longer need the house
rule for not being allowed to base fighters in resource and city hexes.

Max 2 air attacks per hex is now hardcoded in the game we only need to keep track of max direct airstrikes against airbases.
That should help a lot.

CV’s can now intercept airstrikes within range. That means they can protect transports, BB’s etc. from enemy bombers

Fighters and CV’s can be put on sentry mode by hitting the S key when the unit is active. Then you will see some symbol
Zzz drawn on top of the unit. When you want to take a unit out of sentry mode then you just click on the unit.

When a fighter or CV is in sentry mode then it will NOT intercept. That is a great way to avoid being forced into unwanted
interceptions. The only way to avoid it was before to rebase the fighter out of interception range. Now you can keep
the fighter where it is. If the fighter or CV is directly attacked it wil leave sentry mode and defend itself.

Kuwait City is now defined as a supply level 5 source to retain rail capability for the Allies when Iraq activates. This means
we could change Iraq back to a minor country again to avoid having the empty major power in the research and production
dialog boxes.

Since Britain will now get the production from Iraq we removed the Canadian Sudbury mine. The PP’s from the oilfields in
Iraq should compensate for not having Sudbury. We kept the Turner Valley oilfield to reduce the risk of the Allies running
out of oil too soon.

Algeria is replaced as a country with Vichy France. That seems more accurate because the area in North Africa and southern
France was part of Vichy France. Southern France and Corsica are added to Vichy France.

Vichy France will remain neutral (thus no German income from Southern France) until DoW’ed upon by either the Allies or
the Axis. The Axis have now only a narrow border with Spain so an early DoW of Spain will often require a DoW on Vichy France
first. But it’s possible to leave Vichy France and make a combined seaborne invasion and land invasion from the area near
the Atlantic coast bordering Spain.

PP’s in southern France is reduced from 8 PP’s to 5 PP’s and Lille and Bordeaux / La Rochelle increased instead. This way the
Germans will only lose 2.5 PP’s per turn from not having Vichy France. But if the Allies DoW Vichy France they will instead get
full production from Southern France (5 PP’s per turn). That will compensate for the lost PP’s from the fall of France will
Torch. In addition we upped the German at start production from 70 to 90 so they can pay for a lab on the first turn as well.

We added Free France as a possible Allied minor power. Free France will not activate at a specific date. They will only
activate as a result of Vichy France being activated. Free France will be governed by USA so they pay for step losses,
Free France units use US amphs when invading etc. The turn after activation 5 Free French units will be available
near Dakar in Western Africa. It’s 1 armor, 1 motorized and 3 corps units. A house rule limits the use of the Free French
units to Northern Africa until all Vichy port cities in Northern Africa is Allied controlled (Casablanca, Oran, Algiers and Tunis).
Dakar produces 1 PP per turn and it will go to US.

US production in reduced by 3 PP’s (2 from Norfolk and 1 from New York) to “pay” for the Free French units. They get 1 PP
back from Dakar when Free France activates. The other 2 PP’s are lost, but it’s quite expensive to buy the 5 Free French
units so USA shouldn’t complain. Maybe we must lower the US production a bit more.

One reason for adding Free France linked to Vichy France is that the Allies now have an even better reason for launching
Operation Torch. If you succeed with Torch then you have 5 Free French units to use against the Italians and later the
Germans in France. So it’s now less likely that the Allies will bypass Vichy France and go directly for France in 1943.

We changed the class files so all minor powers (almost) now have their own NATO symbol unit graphics. That adds some
spice to the game and it’s easier to distinguish the minor powers fighting alongside Germany and Britain. E. g. The Free French
got the French colors. The unit icons for the minor powers are now copied from the most likely controlling major power,
but a clever CeaW player can now alter the graphics for example for Finnish fighters and change the photo of the German
BF109 with a Finnish airplane. All minor power unit icons can be replaced if people want that. So it’s a chance for modders
to not only change the NATO symbols as I’ve already done, but also the unit icons.

[pk867]

Hi,
Also for the BJR mod 2.00
We have country specific unit images for Armor, FTR, TAC, SB, and Mech Units.
We have US, UK, Italian, French and Russian units. 4 levels of Mech units.
Minor country powers- Sweden, Finland, Romania, Turkey, Spain have there own unique air units or the correct
aircraft color markings for identification.
New BB images for the Major powers. Also to help identify surface ships on the map we changed
the bottom stripe to match the unit counter colors.


pk867

[rkr1958]

Hi,
Also for the BJR mod 2.00
We have country specific unit images for Armor, FTR, TAC, SB, and Mech Units.
We have US, UK, Italian, French and Russian units. 4 levels of Mech units.
Minor country powers- Sweden, Finland, Romania, Turkey, Spain have there own unique air units or the correct
aircraft color markings for identification.
New BB images for the Major powers. Also to help identify surface ships on the map we changed
the bottom stripe to match the unit counter colors.


pk867

And I dare say those images look great! The difference it like between black and white SD TV (vanilla game) and color HD TV (ver 2.00).