Alexander Army

[j2klbs]

Hi all,

I am planning on participating in an 800-pt tournament, and I was hoping you might comment on this army:

C-in-C (Alexander)
1xIC
Sub-commanders
2xTC
Agema
1x4 Cv, Armored, Elite, Drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen
Companion Cavalry
1x4 Cv, Armored, Superior, Drilled, Lancers, Swordsmen
Elephants
1x2 El, Average, Undrilled
Thessalian Cavalry
1x4 Cv, Armored, Average, Drilled, Light Spear, Swordsmen
Prodromoi
1x4 LH, Unprotected, Average, Drilled, Light Spear, Swordsmen
Hypaspists
1x8 HF <or> MF, Protected, Superior, Drilled, Pikemen <or> Light Spear + Swordsmen
Foot Companions
3x10 HF, Protected, Average, Drilled, Pikemen
Greek Hoplites
1x6 HF, Protected, Average, Drilled, Offensive Spear
Cretan Archers
1x6 LF, Unprotected, Superior, Drilled, Bow
Agrianian Javelinmen
1x6 LF, Unprotected, Superior, Undrilled, Javelins, Light Spear

Strategy: Either deploy Agema/El/Companion Cavalry as a hard hittting battle line or split them up if against Kn/Lance. Use Thessalian Cavalry to threaten flanks and Evade from tougher enemies. Deploy Hypaspists as MF if their is important terrain, otherwise as HF. Foot Companions have 10 so that they can sustain losses and still get full POA - plus in 2x5 they can still turn 90 degrees and retain formation. Greek Hoplites to provide rear support to two of the Foot Companion BG's and, if needed, guard camp. Cretan Archers and Agrianian Javelinmen screen Elephants and Foot Companions from bow fire.

Thoughts?

Thanks!
Jason

[batesmotel]

I would consider doing without the elephants. One group isn't that likely to be helpful and they will significantly slow down your agema and companions if you group them together. Use pikes to counter enemy knights. I would consider some more LF or LH instead.

I would take MF Iphikratean hoplites in place of the HF hoplites (which may not be allowed with elephants anyway. See the list text restrictions.) They will be more mobile and can also be used as more bad terrain troops if required.

For pikes, I always take mine as 8's or 12's rather than as 10's. I haven't found it really necessary to have the extra stands to absorb loses when using this army and would rather use those points for something else, maybe an additional TC who can fight with the pikes. I haven't decided whether I would rather have 3x8 or 2x12 for my pikes. Both have their advantages.

Are you required to have any javelin/Light Spear LH? I normally take them but don't remember if they are required. One way to get a few points to fiddle with is to downgrade some of the LF to average rather than superior. I normally take the javelin LF as superior Agrianians and take bow LF as average.

It's a fun combined arms army so enjoy it.

Chris

[hazelbark]

The elephant tend to do better with the foot. The undrilled elephants require a general in the BL or BG to wheel and that can really limit the cavalry manuvering.

Most people demand too much from the companions i have found.

Agreed on the drop the 9th and 10th stands for pike.

[footslogger]

I haven't tried this army, but have used successor armies. I wouldn't take the elite cav if you don't have to. I would recommend dropping the elephants also, but if you're going to take them, the others are right that they work better with pikes. I'd take 2 groups of 12 pikes rather than 3 groups of 10 (or even of . I thought the prodomoroi were lancers? That seems to be a really handy unit to have.

I'm not sure about the IC. If any one ever was an IC it was Alexander so that would be very historical. 4 TCs seems to be the way to run these armies.

[batesmotel]

The elite Agema aren't required but you do need to take them to get a second BG of lance armed cavalry. My experience with the Alexandrian Macedonians is that it isn't a good bet to count on either the pikes or the cavalry to win by themselves. You really need to work them together to be successful with the army. Depending on the opponent one or the other may end up being more decisive but normally both need to be coordinated and involved to win with this army.

Chris

[spike]

I would consider doing without the elephants. One group isn't that likely to be helpful and they will significantly slow down your agema and companions if you group them together. Use pikes to counter enemy knights. I would consider some more LF or LH instead.

<<<snip>>>

I agree with this, its either both BG's or none- 1 BG is probably going to be a target

Spike

[j2klbs]

Thanks so much for your comments, guys.

Re: MF Hoplites, I completely agree! Great suggestion.

Re: 8/12's vs. 10's, in my experience when up against tough foot opponents (Impact Foot or Armored/Heavy Weapon), I tend to lose a base and then it's downhill from their without getting the 2nd POA.

Re: required LH w/ Javelins & Light Spear - oops, I had overlooked that requirement. Thanks! I might try to keep the unit of Prodromoi as it seems they are quite exceptional at running down skirmishers. (And yes, footslogger, you were right - it was my mistake to list them with Light Spear, they are Lancers.)

Re: comments on Elephants, thanks so much! I will probably eliminate them.

You guys rock! Thanks!

Cheers!
Jason

[Blathergut]

Deadtorious and I have both been adding and changing our armies each time we battle. try elephants and see how they are. Leave them out and try more cavalry. Dump the horses and go foot. The neat thing about that army is you have so many choices, Just keep trying them and see what you like and what works and what doesn't but was fun to run anyway!

[eldiablito]

Where to begin...
Well, I too started off with a simmilar list as yours, so here is what I've learned.

First off, those Agema are expensive! They'll work great within that book, but are not worth it when you begin to encounter knights. If you are fighting knights, especially Heavy Armored, you will need elephants, preferably 2 BGs.
Secondly, you want to shrink those pike units. Groups of 8 are ideal. I guess 12 would be alright but most of my wiser opponents have warned me against it. Also, I personnally do not like the hypaspists. For 8 stands you are paying 72 points! For that same price you could get either 12 average pike or 8 pike and 4 Cretan archers. I would pick up the superior pikes after all 4 BGs of average pikes. Now that said, one person who is way better than I uses the hypaspists as MF offensive spear. But that particular list wants to cover the board with terrain; which makes your cav and LH tough to use.
Next, the IC. Historically speaking, of most armies THIS army deserves an IC. However by getting 4 TCs instead of an IC and 2 TCs you spend 10 more points for more command range. Also this lowers your initative by 2. This gives you a greater chance to move first. I personally prefer this as you usually march your pikes first. If the enemy gets to slow you down via light horse or foot, then you will nearly always loose.
Finally, light foot in groups of 6 is sort of a waste to me. I prefer Macedonian and cretan archers in BGs of 4. You are saving from 10 to 12 points while keepng the advantages of lght foot. Hey, if I had them, I'd take 3 BGs of 4 slingers as they are cheaper than both bow selections. Meanwhile, the light spear units must be taken in BGs of 6 so take them normally.

Good luck!

[paulburton]

A lot of interesting thoughts here. I am still thinking about how to do an Early Successor in 25 mm(Antigonos Monopthalamos or Eumenes probably) but will no doubt be tempted by Alexander. By the way the starter list has just the unit of Agema, whereas the main list has 4 compulsory companions with the Agema being optional extras. I haven't spotted any errata for this so don't know what the correct numbers are.

You mentioned using the Hoplites to support 2 pike units. Good idea as I have found support lines invaluable for tests, but you need at least half the number of bases in the supported unit behind them to give support. So an 8 base pike unit would need 4 elements of Hoplites behind it to gain support. If in 10s then it would be 5. I don't know how you would interpret a supporting BG with bases behind 2 different front line battle groups.

[spike]

A lot of interesting thoughts here. I am still thinking about how to do an Early Successor in 25 mm(Antigonos Monopthalamos or Eumenes probably) but will no doubt be tempted by Alexander. By the way the starter list has just the unit of Agema, whereas the main list has 4 compulsory companions with the Agema being optional extras. I haven't spotted any errata for this so don't know what the correct numbers are.

You mentioned using the Hoplites to support 2 pike units. Good idea as I have found support lines invaluable for tests, but you need at least half the number of bases in the supported unit behind them to give support. So an 8 base pike unit would need 4 elements of Hoplites behind it to gain support. If in 10s then it would be 5. I don't know how you would interpret a supporting BG with bases behind 2 different front line battle groups.

I'm no good at doing diagrams but hopefully this explanation will surfice.
A and B are two seperate BGs (each of say 8 bases) in a single line each being 4 wide by 2 deep, Z is a steady battlegroup of 6 bases "in a single element column" with atleast 4 of its bases within support distance to their rear (8 or 12 mu's), with the centre of the column directly behind the split between the 2 units.
Therefore Z provides rear support to both A and B at the same time.



Spike

[j2klbs]

Clarifying the rear support question a little further, you can even support 2 BG's each with 12 bases with a single BG of only 6 bases by having the supporting unit in a column straddling the line between the 2 supported BG's.

Cheers!
Jason

[grahambriggs]

Clarifying the rear support question a little further, you can even support 2 BG's each with 12 bases with a single BG of only 6 bases by having the supporting unit in a column straddling the line between the 2 supported BG's.

Cheers!
Jason

Yes, that'll work. bear in mind though that it may be difficult to keep the column behind both if they wheel, conform to the enemy, etc.