Knocking Out Russia

nathanmcginty · Post by **nathanmcginty** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:45 pm

Howdy,

Old school Third Reich/Squad Leader player. Love CEAW. Probably one of the games I've played the most.

I've been playing the AI and just started my first PBEM game as Axis.

What is everyone's thoughts about the SeaLion/Barbarossa?

It seems like there are two strategies:

1) Do SeaLion. Start a late Barbarossa with the best hope to maybe get to Moscow before winter 41.
2) Don't do Sealion. Start an early Barbarossa. Get Moscow in 41. Get 42 offensive ready for a Russian knockout.

Russia is nice to have out of the game, but since all you need to do is hold Moscow for the victory conditions, it got me wondering.

Also - where does Yugoslavia fit into everything? Is it even worthwhile?

richardsd · Post by **richardsd** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:43 am

good questions!

first and foremost, you have to 'beat' russia to win, but that doesn't mean you have to take both capitals, just inflict enough damage so you can stop russia 'beating' you.

Yougolavia (and others) is about effort expended for return, done right (i.e. quickly) its cheap money.

Sealion is much more a strategic choice/keep them guessing option

JyriErik · Post by **JyriErik** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:58 am

Done right every neutral is worth the effort. You just have to hit hard & fast, and try to keep your losses to a minimum. That way you get more PP over the long run. (Done wrong, your losses takes years to be repaid by the production).

Sealion really depends on the Allied player. If the Allied player gets careless, then you can cripple the UK by taking England. If they defend England resolutely, then you have a shot in the middle east. If they hold the middle east strongly, you have a shot at England. Either way, it requires careful planning and once you commit you chave to go for it all.

Jyri

Celeborn · Post by **Celeborn** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:23 pm

Does anyone have any experience going after Russia's oil production in a mod game? It's Dec '42 and the front is essentially defined by the Dneipr with the Luftwaffe having achieved air dominance thanks to more and better fighters. (Me 262's are just around the corner) A strategic bomber force could reach the Caucuses fields but is it worth the production and oil that would be required? Or would the latter be better spent on building up the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine for what will surely be an attempt by the allies in '43 to retake England? FYI Kirkuk and Mosul should be under Italian control by Easter.

Steve

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:32 am

Celeborn wrote:Does anyone have any experience going after Russia's oil production in a mod game? It's Dec '42 and the front is essentially defined by the Dneipr with the Luftwaffe having achieved air dominance thanks to more and better fighters. (Me 262's are just around the corner) A strategic bomber force could reach the Caucuses fields but is it worth the production and oil that would be required?

Steve

I won't waste my time bombing Russian oil facilities. If you want to build a strategic bomber force and use it against Russia I'd suggest going after their production (i.e., knocking out Moscow and other key PP cities). Or even better (assuming you're playing the BJR Mod), in my opinion, deploy the strategic bombers to Norway along with a tactical bomber and fighter and go after the Murmansk convoy. You can use a sub to help spot for this force and really dent the flow of Allied PP's to Russia.

Celeborn · Post by **Celeborn** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:20 pm

rkr1958 wrote:
Celeborn wrote:Does anyone have any experience going after Russia's oil production in a mod game? It's Dec '42 and the front is essentially defined by the Dneipr with the Luftwaffe having achieved air dominance thanks to more and better fighters. (Me 262's are just around the corner) A strategic bomber force could reach the Caucuses fields but is it worth the production and oil that would be required?

Steve
I won't waste my time bombing Russian oil facilities. If you want to build a strategic bomber force and use it against Russia I'd suggest going after their production (i.e., knocking out Moscow and other key PP cities). Or even better (assuming you're playing the BJR Mod), in my opinion, deploy the strategic bombers to Norway along with a tactical bomber and fighter and go after the Murmansk convoy. You can use a sub to help spot for this force and really dent the flow of Allied PP's to Russia.

Muchas gracias. I was thinking this morning that creating a Murmansk Gauntlet via tactical bombers might be a better way to go. I like strategic bombers from a conceptual standpoint but find that their improved range is outweighed by the reduced attack values, esp when the Allied navy makes its inevitable appearance.