Fighting to front and rear

[TERRYFROMSPOKANE]

A Roman BG comprised of two ranks of legionaries and a third rank of supporting archers is already fighting to its front and is then charged in the rear. It would normally turn to face with the old front rank becoming the new front rank but this is not possible as the existing front rank is already in melee contact. The middle rank of legionaries is currently providing rear support but is not in contact. Does this rank and the third rank of archers turn with the legionaries replacing the archers to go into contact with the new enemy chargers or do the archers remain in their existing rank and go into contact?

Thanks. TWG

[philqw78]

No Terry. If they were charged in the rear and not fighting to the front the ranks would not exchange. Those bases contacted in the impact phase turn and face the enemy.
"Bases contacted on a side or rear edge, or a rear corner, by an enemy flank or rear charge are
immediately turned 90 or 180 degrees to face the chargers" page 41
There are no rules about replacing that rank with others, unless they die. So they can't.

Put you archers in the middle rank

[TERRYFROMSPOKANE]

Is my FOG 3rd Edition out of date? My page 41 says, "When a mixed battle group turns its new front edge must...consist of the same base types as the old front edge."

Page 55 says, "Bases contacted on a side or rear edge ... are immediately turned...using the normal rules for turning..."

In this case the "old front edge" is composed of heavy infantry. Wouldn't the second and third rank turn with the heavy infantry (which are the same base type as the front edge) replace the archers in the new front rank facing the old rear?

Thanks, Terry G.

[grahambriggs]

The BG is not turning. Only the bases contacted are.

[TERRYFROMSPOKANE]

If you say so. But the language on page 55 seems pretty clear that the normal rules for turning are to be used.

Terry G.

[berthier]

You may be using an older version Terry.

The current version speaks of the Restricted Area on page 55.

P. 41 of the current version covers bases that turn when contacted on the flank or rear but appears to muddle the situation as it refers to turning using the normal rules for turning.

P. 31 speaks to turning 180 degrees which states the old rear edge becomes the new front edge. However, in the same paragraph it says something different

[grahambriggs]

If you say so. But the language on page 55 seems pretty clear that the normal rules for turning are to be used.

Terry G.

Yes I see what you mean. I have flagged to the author (who is working on a new version) to see if the words can be clarified.

[TERRYFROMSPOKANE]

OK. Then in my example the archers would turn to face the rear attack and fight during the impact phase. Now when it comes to conforming for the melee phase would the middle rank of legionaries (who had been providing dice for the front rank's melee earlier) be free to either remain facing the way they are or turn to provide dice for the archers' melee?

Also if an archer were lost in the fighting would a second rank legionary be able to shuffle forward to take its place even if currently facing the opposite direction?

Thanks. TWG

[berthier]

I believe the Legionnaires could provide rear support to one side of the fight but not both. Don’t have the rules in front of me, but the rear rank could provide rear support to the archers in the melee phase. This might require them to turn in the maneuver phase before melee.

If a front rank archer dies, it is my understanding that the file behind shuffles to the front rank.

[grahambriggs]

OK. Then in my example the archers would turn to face the rear attack and fight during the impact phase. Now when it comes to conforming for the melee phase would the middle rank of legionaries (who had been providing dice for the front rank's melee earlier) be free to either remain facing the way they are or turn to provide dice for the archers' melee?

Also if an archer were lost in the fighting would a second rank legionary be able to shuffle forward to take its place even if currently facing the opposite direction?

Thanks. TWG

Hello again. In the rules re "Feeding more bases into an existing Melee" it says:

Only bases that fulfil the following criteria can be moved:
o They must not be in a position to contribute to combat prior to being moved (with dice or by creating
a Point of Advantage (POA)).

The middle rank are already able to contribute dice to the combat to their front so cannot be moved.

If an archer is lost then the base removal rules come into play which say

All vacated front rank close combat fighting positions (except overlaps) must be filled if the battle
group has any bases available to do so. Non-front-rank bases must be used if any are available, and can be
from any part of the battle group.

So in this case you remove one of the LF bases and move one of the middle rank bases to fill the hole. Note that it can be any of the middle rank bases, it does not have to be the nearest.