PC2: Any plans to FIX Checkoslavakia scenario?

[brettwjohnson]

I've played thru the entire series (up to AO44) exactly once. I started again and stopped due to frustration w/ the Czechoslovakia scenario.

The bonus objective (not kill any enemy units) is (by far) the single worse designed objective in the series... Why?
Simply - the player has NO control...

I find (consistently) after I've bent over backwards to avoid killing enemy units, some weak enemy unit throws a suicide attack (self-destructing) and denies me the objective.

Players should not be penalized for suicidal AI play...

I strongly recommend this objective be tuned to only penalize the player if an enemy unit is killed *by the player* (i.e., during the player's turn) and not if the AI suicides unit...

If this ever gets fixed, I will start playing again and likely buy more DLC in the series...

Please don't respond w/ inane messages about how I can save/reload endless times until the AI fails to commit suicide.
Been there, done that, gave up...

[Grondel]

I've played thru the entire series (up to AO44) exactly once. I started again and stopped due to frustration w/ the Czechoslovakia scenario.

The bonus objective (not kill any enemy units) is (by far) the single worse designed objective in the series... Why?
Simply - the player has NO control...

I find (consistently) after I've bent over backwards to avoid killing enemy units, some weak enemy unit throws a suicide attack (self-destructing) and denies me the objective.

Players should not be penalized for suicidal AI play...

I strongly recommend this objective be tuned to only penalize the player if an enemy unit is killed *by the player* (i.e., during the player's turn) and not if the AI suicides unit...

If this ever gets fixed, I will start playing again and likely buy more DLC in the series...

Please don't respond w/ inane messages about how I can save/reload endless times until the AI fails to commit suicide.
Been there, done that, gave up...

Due to the setup of the scenario u can just type "runany Victory 1" into the chatbox and move on to the next one as soon as u got the Azul infantry. saves a lot of nerves and makes for a more pleasant life.

sers,
Thomas

[VirgilInTheSKY]

Just deploy support units behind your main occupation unit, and the AI will not attack when they find the exchange prediction unfavorable. I don't remember any "suicide behaviour" among all the playthroughs I have had, as long as you don't use Camouflage hero on your support unit to trick the AI into thinking there is no support. Their aggressiveness is quite low in this scenario, iirc, and they will always try to retreat and replenish if you did hit them too hard. There is just no way you can kill one if you don't want to, imo.

[Bee1976]

Just deploy support units behind your main occupation unit, and the AI will not attack when they find the exchange prediction unfavorable. I don't remember any "suicide behaviour" among all the playthroughs I have had

Pretty much this! I have never seen enemy units attacking me until they are destroyed ?

[Grondel]

Just deploy support units behind your main occupation unit, and the AI will not attack when they find the exchange prediction unfavorable. I don't remember any "suicide behaviour" among all the playthroughs I have had

Pretty much this! I have never seen enemy units attacking me until they are destroyed ?

Suicidal tendencies start happening when u do very low randomness setting. Playing mostly at 10% or lower i notice suiciding units all the time especially when they are down to strength 1-2.

sers,
Thomas

[DefiantXYX]

I never changed the randomness setting and I dont know the default value.

But suicidal attacks happen all the time, I also realized some movements like this on this map. Its hilarious in the AOredone mod with the respawning planes. I think I am clever and let them live with 1-2 hp but the AI keeps wasting them for no reason.

A rework of the AI would be very nice. could change the whole game a lot but I also think this will never come.

To the map itself: I dont get why people often dont like anything then go from left to the right and kill everything.
Its one the map where you actually should think first before you go. Should be possible with a restart or just load some turns before.
My best solution always is to go around the map with the verdaja and a scout care and take the secondary objectives, while the rest of my army stands down until i can end the map. And like the other guys said, if you get a city put some defense behind and DONT attack the enemy when its not needed.

[Tassadar]

I have also played this many times and not seen the issue at all. The way the map is structured, it is worth using the rivers to your advantage, as the AI is unlikely to attempt an attack though the river. Consider splitting units as well, it can reduce damage dealt to the enemy, and try to send some of the less powerful forces overall instead of best in the roster. Light artillery with its suppression effects can help further - as predecessors stated, unfavorable combat predictions will deter the AI in the first place, when its still at decent strength.

[adiekmann]

Most of the time I have little trouble with this scenario even though I am definitely NOT a fan either.

On occasion I have had an AI unit attempt an illogical attack that is all but certain to end in its total destruction. No rhyme or reason to it that I have ever been able to ascertain.

Nevertheless, someone's tip when that DLC first came out still largely proves true. You need a bridging engineer and a couple recons. Do not expose your units to the enemy in the EAST of the map until you are ready to seize those victory hexes along the river. Guard them and send one recon unit to secure the flags down that side of the map and then proceed west along the bottom. Inch it around the bottom city and take the bottom center flag. I take the bottom left flag with the bridging engineer and a recon crossing from the bottom left. Do not attack the enemy but hold in strength and absorb their attacks. Usually done in a half dozen turns or so.

[brettwjohnson]

Appreciate the advice and may try again...

However, I will repeat my observation - this is a badly designed objective.
It should be re-tuned that *only* killing units during the players turn causes the bonus objective to fail.

In general, I love the game and most of the bonus objectives are fun and interesting... With some minor re-tuning to not penalize the player due to AI action, this one would be fun and interesting, rather than frustrating and irritating.

[VirgilInTheSKY]

Appreciate the advice and may try again...

However, I will repeat my observation - this is a badly designed objective.
It should be re-tuned that *only* killing units during the players turn causes the bonus objective to fail.

In general, I love the game and most of the bonus objectives are fun and interesting... With some minor re-tuning to not penalize the player due to AI action, this one would be fun and interesting, rather than frustrating and irritating.

It's just technically impossible for now. The check used by the game is just "if a unit still exist", not "who killed that unit".

[Grondel]

It's just technically impossible for now. The check used by the game is just "if a unit still exist", not "who killed that unit".

It´s not impossible, just inconvenient and a little complicated to do.
Maybe when i´m in the mod i´ll change it next time i get there when playing AO redone.

sers,
Thomas

[RobotGeneral]

Heh it shows that people have differet tastes, I found the Checkslovakia scenario very refreshing and the "don't kill any units" mission a smart reverse of the typical objectives. If it was kept for more than 1 scenario it would definitely overstay its welcome, but for now its a nice break, particularly if you are coming from SCW DLC and Madrid which has the exact opposite objective "kIll all units".


As others have said if the cost calculation for an attack is too high the AI will leave your cap units alone, use recons to take the last locations on the south, I did it with just one and recon.

[milliethedog]

Hi, not sure about this thread, I have played this game at least 15 times now, after the first attempt it is very straight forward. On different plays I have given the enemy 1, 2 or 3 heroes for every unit on the map and have had no issue. Yes some games have been very close, but most have been very straight forward. I buy infantry units, backed by arty and the very odd tank to hold each crossing. I take a bridging unit and an infantry unit down the west side and cross taking the southern hexes, while recon race around the east to link up. This has never failed me and can result in a very quick win.
to me there are much harder games in SCW. The other thing i do is to remove some heroes from my force that are too powerful for this single game.
Martin