Slitherine ELO Ranking System

[Karvon]

After some discussion among the coordinators, we have decided the following.

1. Players are NOT to unilaterally set up matches as Slitherine ranked games.
2. If you wish to rank a game, first contact your opponent and see if they are interested in doing so.
3. If both players are in agreement, matches can be set up as Slitherine ranked games.
4. If a match has been set up as a ranked game unilaterally by your opponent, you are free to set up a new match unranked without this counting as your reroll. However, if you accept a ranked match, and then decide you want to reset it, that will count as your reroll. It's very clear in the challenge screen that a match is ranked; there is a special icon and the ELO ranking of the poster is plainly listed.

Our reasoning includes:

1. We already have a superior ELO system in place for tracking TDC participation. It includes provisions for draws and level of victory, neither accounted for in the Slitherine system.

2. Given the Slitherine ELO simply awards victory to whoever has the most points, it markedly changes the approach players may take to playing the game as a decisive result is unnecessary.

Regards,

Karvon

[tyronec]

4. If a match has been set up as a ranked game unilaterally by your opponent, you are free to set up a new match unranked without this counting as your reroll.

Can you clarify this.
If an opponent has set up the match as ranked, a player could accept it, look at the map and then abort the game.
Then set up the match again, unranked, WITHOUT it counting as their reroll ?

This doesn't seem to make sense. If a player doesn't want to play the match as ranked then they could just as easily not accept it.
That way there is no question of a reroll even happening.


I think it is disappointing that you are not willing to support the Slitherine ranking system. Both RBS and Slitherine have put a lot of work in to create the system for the benefit of the player body and to keep more people playing the game and there was plenty of opportunity to engage with them while it as being developed. ELO systems are improved by more games being played, why not support the Slitherine system as well - does it matter that the TDC system is 'superior'.

[ianiow]

I agree with Tyronec that we need to recognize the hard work Slitherine has put in trying to make their system compatible with League games. However I might have found an unforseen area of incompatibility. On the MY PAGE Multiplayer section you are invited to select two options:

MULTIPLAYER PROFILE
Hide my profile
When checked this will hide your PBEM Multiplayer Profile to the public.

Opt out from Ranked Matches
When checked you will not be able to participate in any ranked match or tournament and you will be removed from any leaderboard.

I assume both of these will render League games with ranked challenges invisible to players who have checked either of these boxes? Just a heads up for players who might not be seeing some of the challenges!

[Karvon]

There's nothing to stop players from playing ranked games, as long as they mutually agree to do so.

Some players, for whatever reasons, may not wish to play such ranked games. The rules protect them from being forced to do so. Also, as pointed out, some may have opted out completely from ranked games and wouldn't be able so see such challenges at all.

If you want to rank a game, contact your opponent first and make sure they are amenable to doing so.

Karvon

[Karvon]

4. If a match has been set up as a ranked game unilaterally by your opponent, you are free to set up a new match unranked without this counting as your reroll.

Can you clarify this.
If an opponent has set up the match as ranked, a player could accept it, look at the map and then abort the game.
Then set up the match again, unranked, WITHOUT it counting as their reroll ?

This doesn't seem to make sense. If a player doesn't want to play the match as ranked then they could just as easily not accept it.
That way there is no question of a reroll even happening.

That's a very valid point. It's quite clear in the challenge listing that a game is a ranked challenge, both by icon and display of the player ELO ranking. If a player accepts a ranked game, they would have to use their reroll to then reset the match as unranked. I will update the initial post to reflect that.

I think it is disappointing that you are not willing to support the Slitherine ranking system. Both RBS and Slitherine have put a lot of work in to create the system for the benefit of the player body and to keep more people playing the game and there was plenty of opportunity to engage with them while it as being developed. ELO systems are improved by more games being played, why not support the Slitherine system as well - does it matter that the TDC system is 'superior'.

While I appreciate and applaud the development of the Slitherine ELO system, the coordinators don't feel it is adequate atm for TDC.

1. It does not account for draws; who ever has the most points, regardless of how few, is awarded the victory. Thus, a player can draw a little blood in skirmishing and then avoid fighting or assume a very tough defensive position and win.

2. It does not account for magnitude of victory. Again, it is simply all or nothing. Our own ELO adjusts the award based on proportion of losses between players, in addition to whether it was a clear win or not.

Finally, we have already established five seasons of data using our ELO system. We're quite satisfied with how the system is working, and see no reason to replace it.

The Slitherine ELO system is being supported by use in their tournaments, and I see a fair number of players posting ranked matches in MP. I occasionally take up such matches myself, if the armies interest me. I don't think their ELO system is going away, and their rankings may be useful for event organizers wishing to seed events they create. Some events may decide to adopt the ELO as part of their events.

Regards,

Karvon

[tyronec]

Thanks for amending the rules for ranked challenges, that resolves the main issue.

I don't agree with any of the arguments against playing TDC games as ranked battles. The Slitherine tournaments work fine with one scoring system for the tournament and another to update the ELO ranking - and hundreds of players are participating in them . Sure, the ranking system is not perfect but as people play more games it will become a better representation of what their ranking should be. Then if there is a new player joining the TDC or HOML their rating can be used to place them in the more appropriate division.

[Karvon]

Bumped as a reminder