Loss of capital region to nation without war or passage rights

[JonJonJon]

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- Playing as Northumberland (not a vassal).
- Scotland have three armies in my land (Cumberland, Galloway, Dunbar). Norway have one (West Riding).
- Have co-operation with Scotland, no relations with Norway. Scotland at war with Norway. Neither have passage rights, but both are touching my stuff.
- At the end of this turn, Scottish army from Cumberland move into West Riding (my capital) to presumably attack the Norwegian army.
- Result is there's no battle between anyone and Scotland take over the region and my capital. How, what, why?

I tried reloading and moving my army (from Lancashire) into West Riding and it's the same result.

[Surt]

Hmm sounds like the same that happened with the Iberian order (see other posts here), try going back 2 turns and move your army there.

You can upload the last autosave. (f.ex. WeTransfer.com)

[PortoLover]

I agree with Surt, it seems like the same issue I'm having.
If you could upload the savefile I'd like to play around with it and see if it is the same issue!

[JonJonJon]

Upon going back a few turns and playing through again, this is avoided.

However the big issue here is that Scotland and Norway have units in my regions when they have no right to be there (we're not allies, there's no passage rights) - and if they both end up in the same region, then that region is given to whoever has the strongest army out of the two interlopers (regardless of my garrison or army in the region).

This is possibly caused by Scotland and Norway being at war with each other and no longer sharing a land border. Scotland went to war with a Norwegian vassal that had some land in Scotland, but by now the Scottish have taken it all. And when they met in my region it looks like that was treated as Scotland beating a Norwegian army and conquering that region without checking if firstly either of them should have been there, and secondly who the region belongs to.

[PortoLover]

And when they met in my region it looks like that was treated as Scotland beating a Norwegian army and conquering that region without checking if firstly either of them should have been there, and secondly who the region belongs to.

I'm pretty sure it's a bug, I'm having the same issue with Castille and Iberian Order fighting battles on my regions and stealing them from me.
I've put my campaign on hold for the time being as it seems to be a major issue, hopefully it'll get patched soon!

[JonJonJon]

Re passage rights - there's a crusade going on which we're all in on which explains why they're in my territory without the usual agreements. Which explains that part.

That then leads onto the issue of Scotland and Norway having passage right in my regions due to the crusade and being at war with each other. When an army from each is then in the same region there's a battle, and the winner is getting the region despite it belonging to a third party (me) - which sounds like there's no ownership check.

Also regarding crusades, not sure if these things are wad or not:

- a crusade was called ~10 turns ago against a target in the middle east. That's well underway and there's been multiple messages about the crusaders taking Jerusalem and it being over...but it appears to be carrying on.
- another crusade was called by Scotland on Prussia while the one in the middle east is still going
- a third on has been called by Norway on Livonia. These are all in the space of ~15 turns.
- the Fatimids (whose vassal was the target for the initial call) are now trying to negotiate peace with me (I didn't call the crusade)
- the Prussians are also doing this, and this happened the next turn after the Scottish called it on them

[Surt]

Re passage rights - there's a crusade going on which we're all in on which explains why they're in my territory without the usual agreements. Which explains that part.

That then leads onto the issue of Scotland and Norway having passage right in my regions due to the crusade and being at war with each other. When an army from each is then in the same region there's a battle, and the winner is getting the region despite it belonging to a third party (me) - which sounds like there's no ownership check.

Also regarding crusades, not sure if these things are wad or not:

- a crusade was called ~10 turns ago against a target in the middle east. That's well underway and there's been multiple messages about the crusaders taking Jerusalem and it being over...but it appears to be carrying on.
- another crusade was called by Scotland on Prussia while the one in the middle east is still going
- a third on has been called by Norway on Livonia. These are all in the space of ~15 turns.
- the Fatimids (whose vassal was the target for the initial call) are now trying to negotiate peace with me (I didn't call the crusade)
- the Prussians are also doing this, and this happened the next turn after the Scottish called it on them

Hmm seems that is the problem, crusade gives access, as it should so crusaders can arrive at the target.
But I expected that there would be no battles among the crusaders, nor taking your stuff.

[Pocus]

There is only one Crusade that can occur at a time, so all efforts are pooled into the same Crusade due to this limitation. This means that Crusaders initially declaring war on the Fatimids can end up also at war with Prussia. We might be able to tweak the odds and probabilities, but the overall model of a single Crusade cannot be changed without a major effort.

When you are part of a Crusade, you are not always at war with everyone, but you might have 0-Authority cost declarations of war made on your behalf, progressively, to all Crusade targets. That's working as designed.

The bug of land stealing is fixed in 1.01 but it's true that for the time being, if 2 Crusaders fight each other on your land, they might steal it. It should be rare because the war between them must pre-date the Crusade.