Lists Under Construction

[nikgaukroger]

Probably worth people noting down any lists they are drafting, or intending to draft soon, so that we don't duplicate that bit of work. Obviously won't stop anyone chipping in to discuss a draft when one is done

Suggest just post here when you are working on a draft and delete the message when it has been circulated by Richard to keep the thread small.

[nikgaukroger]

To get things rolling I am currently drafting:

Scottish list for Trade & Treachery.
Scots Covenanter for Wars of Religion.

[Ghaznavid]

Wouldn't it make more sense if we started with announcing what lists we feel we can/want to do? That way we could get aa long term overview on what is going to be covered and where we might have overlaps comming.

[nikgaukroger]

Feel free.

[nikgaukroger]

Be useful if I answered as well wouldn't it - doh!

I'd be happy doing

C16th through ECW English, Scots and Irish - probably post ECW as well
C16th and C17th French
Indian sub-continent
Chinese
Steppe types (probably)
80YW Dutch & Low Countries Spanish (although I suspect your German perspective here will be very helpful)
Mamluk


Less interest but could possibly do

Korean
Japanese
Italian Wars
Gustavus' TYW Swedish


More interest but less knowledge

Post TYW Imperialists
Russins
Ottoman
Safavid


Bugger all interest or knowledge

Native American
African - Richard Young has agreed to do African armies so this is covered

[Ghaznavid]

Here we go:

FOGR1: Wars of Religion - basically TYW & ECW

Plan to do:
11. German Catholic 1618-1631
12. German Catholic 1632-1648
13. German Protestant 1618-1648

Can do if required (may turn out to be somewhat more problematic/time intensive then the above):
9. Middle Dutch 1609-1648
10. Low Country Spanish 1609-1659
15. Danish 1611-1645

Interested, but little direct knowledge so far:
14. Transylvanian 1618-1629



FOGR2: Trade and Treachery - Italian Wars, etc.

Plan to do:
5. Early Caroline Imperialist 1519-1533
7. Later Caroline Imperialist 1534-1559
17. Early German Imperial 1494-1519
18. German States 1494-1554

Can do if required (may turn out to be somewhat more problematic/time intensive then the above):
4. Swiss 1494-1515
19. Early Danish 1524-1587


FOGR3: Clash of Empires - Middle East and Eastern Europe (ish)

Plan to do:
10. Imperial Austrian 1559-1618

Can do if required (may turn out to be somewhat more problematic/time intensive then the above):
3. Hungarian 1494-1526
21. Early Dutch 1568-1609
22. Early Low Country Spanish 1568-1609

FOGR5: Duty and Glory - Late C17th Europe

Plan to do:
11. Brandenburg-Prussia 1655-1698
12. Saxon 1683-1698
13. Bavarian 1675ish-1698
17. Later Imperialist 1649-1698

Can do if required (may turn out to be somewhat more problematic/time intensive then the above):
6. Later Dutch 1649-1688
15. Later Danish 1649-1698
18. Hungarian 1670-1685


Hmmm... quite a list.

Sidenote, it's unlikely that I can come up with anything before September, still got half of the German FoG site to finish and just about half of my BritCon Army to paint.

[nikgaukroger]

Ta. I'll map our lists onto the plans for the books and see what we have

[nikgaukroger]

Here is a listing of who maybe doing what. NB - the contents of Trade & Traechery and Clash of Empires have changed slightly.

FoG:R Army List Books

FoGR1 – Wars of Religion
1. Scots Covenanter 1639-1651 - NG
2. Bishops War English 1639-1640* - NG
3. Early ECW Royalist 1642-1643 - NG
4. Parliamentarian 1642-1648 - NG
5. Irish Confederate 1641-1652* - NG
6. Later ECW Royalist 1643-1646 - NG
7. Scots Royalist 1644-1646 - NG
8. New Model 1645-1660 - NG
9. Middle Dutch 1609-1648* - KL?/NG?
10. Low Country Spanish 1609-1659* - KL?/NG?
11. German Catholic 1618-1631* - KL
12. German Catholic 1632-1648 - KL
13. German Protestant 1618-1648* - KL
14. Transylvanian 1618-1629* - KL??
15. Danish 1611-1645* - KL?
16. Swedish 1630-1634 – NG?
17. Swedish 1635-1648 – NG?
18. French 1622-1648* - NG
19. French Fronde 1649-1655ish* - NG
20. French Royalist 1649-1660 - NG


FoGR2 - Trade and Treachery
1. French in Italy 1494-1559 – NG?
2. Italian States 1494-1553 – NG?
3. Spanish 1494-1518* - NG?
4. Swiss 1494-1515 – KL?
5. Early Caroline Imperialist 1519-1533 - KL
6. Venetian 1494-1559 – NG?
7. Later Caroline Imperialist 1534-1559* - KL
8. North African States 1494-1698
9. Moroccan 1494-1698*
10. Portuguese 1494-1578*
11. French in Northern Europe 1494-1559 – NG?
12. English 1494-1559 - NG
13. Scots 1494-1568 - NG
14. Irish 1494-1603 - NG
15. Early German Imperial 1494-1519 - KL
16. German States 1494-1554 – KL
17. Elizabethan English 1559-1603 - NG
18. French Wars of Religion Catholic 1562-1597 - NG
19. French Wars of Religion Huguenot 1562-1598 - NG
20. Early Dutch 1568-1609* - KL?/NG?
21. Early Low Country Spanish 1568-1609 – KL?/NG?



FoGR3 – Clash of Empires
1. Ottoman Turk 1494-1625 – NG?
2. Knights of St John 1494-1575
3. Hungarian 1494-1526 – KL?
4. Wallachian, Moldavian and Transylvanian 1494-1606
5. Tartar 1494-1698
6. Mamluk Egyptian 1494-1517 - NG
7. Anatolian emirates 1494-1515*
8. White Sheep Turk 1494-1504
9. Safavid Persian 1499-1698* - NG??
10. Imperial Austrian 1559-1618* - KL
11. Venetian 1560-1617 – NG??
12. Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth 1576-1631
13. Swedish 1618-1629*
14. Cossack 1550-1698
15. Russian 1553-1647
16. Georgian and Circassian 1494-1698*
17. Siberian Tribes 1494-1698
18. Scandinavian 1494-1523
19. Early Polish 1494-1575
20. Early Danish 1524-1587* - KL?
21. Early Swedish 1524-1617*
22. Early Russian 1494-1552 – NG??




FoGR4 – Colonies and Conquest
1. Portuguese Colonial 1494-1698*
2. Arab States (Yemen, Oman etc) 1494-1698*
3. Early Moghul 1494-1556 - NG
4. Later Moghul 1557-1698 - NG
5. Islamic Indian 1494-1687 - NG
6. Somali 1494-1698* - RY
7. Abyssinian 1494-1698* - RY
8. Hindu Indian 1494-1698 - NG
9. Maratha 1646-1698 - NG
10. Zanj 1494-1698* - RY
11. Ming Chinese 1494-1683 - NG
12. Tibetan 1494-1698* - NG?
13. Early Manchu and Jurchen 1494-1635* - NG
14. Mongol 1494-1698 – NG?
15. Wo-k’ou Pirates 1542-1570 – NG??
16. Dutch Colonial 1602-1698*
17. Sinhalese 1494-1698*
18. Indonesian or Malay 1494-1698*
19. Japanese 1494-1614 – NG??
20. Korean 1494-1698 – NG??
21. Burmese, Siamese, Laotian and Khmer 1494-1698*
22. Vietnamese 1494-1698*
23. Manchu and Ch’ing Chinese 1601-1698 - NG
24. Polynesian and Melanesian 1494-1698*


FoGR5 – Duty and Glory
1. Early Louis XIV French 1661-1692 - NG
2. Later Louis XIV French 1692-1698 - NG
3. Spanish 1660-1698*
4. Portuguese 1640-1698*
5. Restoration English 1661-1688 - NG
6. Later Dutch 1649-1688* - KL?
7. Anglo-Dutch 1688-1698 - NG
8. Savoyard 1648-1698*
9. Monmouth Rebel 1685* - NG
10. Irish Jacobite 1689-1691 - NG
11. Brandenburg-Prussia 1655-1698* - KL
12. Saxon 1683-1698* - KL
13. Bavarian 1675ish-1698* - KL
14. Later Polish 1632-1698
15. Later Danish 1649-1698* - KL?
16. Later Swedish 1649-1698*
17. Later Imperialist 1649-1698 - KL
18. Hungarian 1670-1685* - KL?
19. Later Russian 1648-1698* - NG??
20. Later Venetian 1645-1698 – NG??
21. Later Ottoman Turk 1625-1698 – NG?

FoGR6 – Cities of Gold
1. Aztec 1494-1521
2. Tarascan and Tlaxcalan (including early Conquistadors) 1494-1521
3. Mixtec and Zapotec 1494-1521
4. West African Forest Peoples 1494-1698* - RY
5. West Sudanese (actually south west of the Sahara!) 1494-1698* - RY
6. Tuareg 1494-1698* - RY
7. Central African States 1494-1698* - RY
8. Mayan 1494-1697
9. Spanish Colonial 1524-1698
10. Pueblo Indian 1494-1692*
11. Natchez 1494-1698*
12. Inca 1494-1572
13. Machupe 1494-1600*
14. Tupi and Tapuya 1494-1692*
15. Buccaneer 1624-1698
16. Alwa 1494-1504* - RY
17. Wadj 1494-1698* - RY
18. Funj 1504-1698* - RY
19. Shaiqiya 1660-1698*
20. French Colonial 1603-1698
21. English and Dutch in North America 1607-1698
22. New Model English in West Indies 1654-1655
23. Eastern Forest American 1494-1698
24. North West American 1494-1698*

[robertthebruce]

Hi all.


Honour to me, take part in this group again. I will start to work ASAP, when the internet company will install my wifi net in my new apartament.
I will try to keep with open ears here anyway.


Cheers

[Ghaznavid]

in my new apartament.

So you gave up an apartment with a direct view on the Alhambra? Anyway good to have you here.


Oh and Nic, I guess that answers 50% of the questions in my last PM, how about the other 50%?

[robertthebruce]

So you gave up an apartment with a direct view on the Alhambra? Anyway good to have you here.

No, now I have the Alhambra on my back, but I have a nice view of Sierra Nevada .

The Alhambra was taked by the christians yet, now we are in the renaissance, and I should visit the Carlos V palace, and the cathedral, there is a lot of information of the Italian wars in this places.


David

[xavier]

Hereby the lists where I could contribute (probably in most of them together with David).

I concentrated in Spanish/Imperialist lists since they are the only ones where I might have acces to more information than list writers abroad. I also included others about which I don't have information yet but that have no list writer assigned. I could start investigating from scratch since they still have some proximity to Spain...

Since we have an overlap with other people in some of them, we can either split them in order to leverage the amount of work, or merge the different proposals we ellaborate in parallel...

Moreover, it would be very handy to know what is the foreseen publishing schedule, so that we can prioritise.

Cheers,
Xavi

FoG:R Army List Books

FoGR1 – Wars of Religion
10. Low Country Spanish 1609-1659* - KL?/NG?


FoGR2 - Trade and Treachery
3. Spanish 1494-1518* - NG?
5. Early Caroline Imperialist 1519-1533 - KL
7. Later Caroline Imperialist 1534-1559* - KL
8. North African States 1494-1698
9. Moroccan 1494-1698*
10. Portuguese 1494-1578*
21. Early Low Country Spanish 1568-1609 – KL?/NG?


FoGR4 – Colonies and Conquest
1. Portuguese Colonial 1494-1698*


FoGR5 – Duty and Glory
3. Spanish 1660-1698*
4. Portuguese 1640-1698*


FoGR6 – Cities of Gold (who wrote the Mesoamerican lists for FOG? He'll probably have much more information about them than any of us...)
1. Aztec 1494-1521
2. Tarascan and Tlaxcalan (including early Conquistadors) 1494-1521
3. Mixtec and Zapotec 1494-1521
8. Mayan 1494-1697
9. Spanish Colonial 1524-1698
10. Pueblo Indian 1494-1692*
11. Natchez 1494-1698*
12. Inca 1494-1572
13. Machupe 1494-1600* (shouldn't it be Mapuche??)
14. Tupi and Tapuya 1494-1692*
15. Buccaneer 1624-1698

[Ghaznavid]

Well, looks like the Low Country Spanish are popular.
I guess I will leave them to your capable hands (and possibly Niks grubby fingers ).

Caroline Imperialists should become an interesting combined effort, looking forward to that for sure.

As for the deadlines, they are noted in the Lists, lists, lists thread: viewtopic.php?p=97050#97050

[xavier]

I copy in the forum a previous email sent to Nik:

Looks like there's no list for Peninsular armies from 1559 to 1660.
We probably don't need Peninsular armies for various minor revolts and internal conflicts (Alpujarras in Andalusia, Germanies in Valencia, etc.) during the reigns of Felipe II and Felipe III, but I think we do need to cover Peninsular armies during the reign of Felipe IV (either as a separate list or as an extension of a re-named version of the current Low Country Spanish).

In 1638, during the 30YW, France invaded Catalonia north of the Pyrenees (Roussillon, Vallespir and Conflent). The Spanish army raised to face the French behaved in Catalonia more like an occupation army than as a defence force and on top of that Catalan leaders were imprisioned accused of not supporting the "Union de armas" (royal request of recruiting troops for the Spanish army that was against Catalan law). This caused a Catalan rebellion, the proclamation of an independent Republic first and the recognition of Louis XII of France as Count of Barcelona later, with the subsequent French intervention. The war lasted until 1652, when Spanish troops conquered Barcelona due to the fact that most French forces had withdrawed to fight in the Fronde civil war in France. But in 1653 general La Mothe crossed the border again with 14.000 French and Catalan troops and didn't retire until the signature of the Treaty of the Pyrenees in 1659, that deffinitely gave Roussillon, Vallespir and Conflent to France.

In parallel, Portugal also revolted against the Crown. With the main Spanish forces involved in the Low Countries and Catalonia, this raising succeeded and defeated the Spanish at Elvas. In 1665 an attempt of re-conquest by Spain was defeated again at Villaviciosa, which consolidated the Portuguese independence. There is a list for Portugal from 1640, but not a Spanish list to fight against in that period...

On top of that, the French lists of 1641 - 1653 should also include the Catalan troops that fought alongside the French army during the war...

Cheers,
Xavier

[nikgaukroger]

Firstly apologies for the long delay in replying here - too busy elsewhere I'm afraid

I copy in the forum a previous email sent to Nik:

Looks like there's no list for Peninsular armies from 1559 to 1660.
We probably don't need Peninsular armies for various minor revolts and internal conflicts (Alpujarras in Andalusia, Germanies in Valencia, etc.) during the reigns of Felipe II and Felipe III, but I think we do need to cover Peninsular armies during the reign of Felipe IV (either as a separate list or as an extension of a re-named version of the current Low Country Spanish).

Happy to include a separate list if it is justified. Which book would it be in and what dates?

In 1638, during the 30YW, France invaded Catalonia north of the Pyrenees (Roussillon, Vallespir and Conflent). The Spanish army raised to face the French behaved in Catalonia more like an occupation army than as a defence force and on top of that Catalan leaders were imprisioned accused of not supporting the "Union de armas" (royal request of recruiting troops for the Spanish army that was against Catalan law). This caused a Catalan rebellion, the proclamation of an independent Republic first and the recognition of Louis XII of France as Count of Barcelona later, with the subsequent French intervention. The war lasted until 1652, when Spanish troops conquered Barcelona due to the fact that most French forces had withdrawed to fight in the Fronde civil war in France. But in 1653 general La Mothe crossed the border again with 14.000 French and Catalan troops and didn't retire until the signature of the Treaty of the Pyrenees in 1659, that deffinitely gave Roussillon, Vallespir and Conflent to France.

In parallel, Portugal also revolted against the Crown. With the main Spanish forces involved in the Low Countries and Catalonia, this raising succeeded and defeated the Spanish at Elvas. In 1665 an attempt of re-conquest by Spain was defeated again at Villaviciosa, which consolidated the Portuguese independence. There is a list for Portugal from 1640, but not a Spanish list to fight against in that period...

Again if you think there should be another list, or an existing one extended, please post here and I'm sure we can accommodate. The contents are not yet set in stone.

On top of that, the French lists of 1641 - 1653 should also include the Catalan troops that fought alongside the French army during the war...

Cheers,
Xavier

I'm sure if they're misse dout you'll point it out when we're doing those lists

[xavier]

Firstly apologies for the long delay in replying here - too busy elsewhere I'm afraid

I copy in the forum a previous email sent to Nik:

Looks like there's no list for Peninsular armies from 1559 to 1660.
We probably don't need Peninsular armies for various minor revolts and internal conflicts (Alpujarras in Andalusia, Germanies in Valencia, etc.) during the reigns of Felipe II and Felipe III, but I think we do need to cover Peninsular armies during the reign of Felipe IV (either as a separate list or as an extension of a re-named version of the current Low Country Spanish).

Happy to include a separate list if it is justified. Which book would it be in and what dates?

In 1638, during the 30YW, France invaded Catalonia north of the Pyrenees (Roussillon, Vallespir and Conflent). The Spanish army raised to face the French behaved in Catalonia more like an occupation army than as a defence force and on top of that Catalan leaders were imprisioned accused of not supporting the "Union de armas" (royal request of recruiting troops for the Spanish army that was against Catalan law). This caused a Catalan rebellion, the proclamation of an independent Republic first and the recognition of Louis XII of France as Count of Barcelona later, with the subsequent French intervention. The war lasted until 1652, when Spanish troops conquered Barcelona due to the fact that most French forces had withdrawed to fight in the Fronde civil war in France. But in 1653 general La Mothe crossed the border again with 14.000 French and Catalan troops and didn't retire until the signature of the Treaty of the Pyrenees in 1659, that deffinitely gave Roussillon, Vallespir and Conflent to France.

In parallel, Portugal also revolted against the Crown. With the main Spanish forces involved in the Low Countries and Catalonia, this raising succeeded and defeated the Spanish at Elvas. In 1665 an attempt of re-conquest by Spain was defeated again at Villaviciosa, which consolidated the Portuguese independence. There is a list for Portugal from 1640, but not a Spanish list to fight against in that period...

Again if you think there should be another list, or an existing one extended, please post here and I'm sure we can accommodate. The contents are not yet set in stone.

A single list would cover all those conflicts, that have to be understood as the Peninsular side effects of the 30YW, therefore it would be included in the Wars of Religion book.
It could start in 1635 (when France declares war to Spain, which creates the need for an army to defend Spain's northern border) and end in 1665, when Portugal definitely gains its independence after the battle of Villaviciosa.

Xavier

[robertthebruce]

Hi All.


I agree with Xavi, it´s necessary to include an army list to cover the major internal conflicts ass the Catalonia independentist war.


I would like that the spanish armies will named ass "Tercios" if is possible, in Spain the armies of this period are knowed ass "Tercios of Italy" "Tercios of France" and "Tercios of Flandes",from the second half of the XVI century at least.


And what´s the dates to cover in FOGR, I don´t know if the Spanish sucession war is covered.



David

[nikgaukroger]

List names are not fixed either so if you have a preference just include it in a draft list

FoG:R dates are 1494 to 1699, so no War of the Spanish Succession.

[marshalney2000]

As the new boy in town, I would be happy to have a go at the following lists:
Scot's royalist, 1689 Jacobite Rebellion, 1680's Scot's Covenant and Monmouth rebellion.
Ok I know two of these lists are not even shown in the proposed books but they are different and provide two unusual armies which might be worthy of inclusion for that reason.
John

[nikgaukroger]

As the new boy in town, I would be happy to have a go at the following lists:
Scot's royalist, 1689 Jacobite Rebellion, 1680's Scot's Covenant and Monmouth rebellion.
Ok I know two of these lists are not even shown in the proposed books but they are different and provide two unusual armies which might be worthy of inclusion for that reason.
John

Please feel free to do them. Can't guarantee they'll end up in the books - happened with some FoG:AM lists - but if they're not done they'll have no chance