Elo rankings

[rbodleyscott]

The Elo rankings page is now showing:

https://www.slitherine.com/leaderboard/ ... i-medieval

However, it has become apparent that (in Ancients at least) the PBEM code that adjusts the rankings after a game is not working as intended.

If the displayed ranking changes after you complete games do not look correct to you, please report them here.

At the moment it appears that the Elo score changes may be being applied the wrong way round (at least in Ancients) - in some or all cases.

[Witan]

The ranking in Medieval seems to work for me so far.

[rbodleyscott]

The ranking in Medieval seems to work for me so far.

Thanks

[Witan]

Well, sadly I have to say that not everything seems fine either with the Medieval Ranking system...

I had a ranked mirror battle against Sivula of which I have won a battle quite decisive 5% to 67% using the regular rules. But in his final turn Sivula told me that it was not possible for him to finish the battle, because of the known bug that prevents to upload a turn to the server. After this the battle was stuck on the server since the 8th of December and today I used the "End Stalled Game" button to finally finish it. Sadly after finishing it this way I have noticed, that the ranked profile tells me that I have lost the battle and I also lost 15 ELO without a reason for this.

It's certainly not the best message you can get at Christmas, but there's nothing I can do about it...
Anyway wishing Merry Christmas.

[rbodleyscott]

Well, sadly I have to say that not everything seems fine either with the Medieval Ranking system...

I had a ranked mirror battle against Sivula of which I have won a battle quite decisive 5% to 67% using the regular rules. But in his final turn Sivula told me that it was not possible for him to finish the battle, because of the known bug that prevents to upload a turn to the server. After this the battle was stuck on the server since the 8th of December and today I used the "End Stalled Game" button to finally finish it. Sadly after finishing it this way I have noticed, that the ranked profile tells me that I have lost the battle and I also lost 15 ELO without a reason for this.

It's certainly not the best message you can get at Christmas, but there's nothing I can do about it...
Anyway wishing Merry Christmas.

Thanks. Slitherine staff are on Christmas break till 2nd January, so we won't be able to look into it till after then.

[tyronec]

The Medieval rankings are shown 20 per page while the Ancients are all on one page.
IMO the Ancients method is much better, you can scroll down the whole list easily and also if it were wanted to incorporate them into a spreadsheet (for example to include into TDC or HOML rankings) it could be done with one 'COPY' rather than needing one COPY for each page.
Could the Ancients display method be adopted for Medieval ?

[rbodleyscott]

The Medieval rankings are shown 20 per page while the Ancients are all on one page.
IMO the Ancients method is much better, you can scroll down the whole list easily and also if it were wanted to incorporate them into a spreadsheet (for example to include into TDC or HOML rankings) it could be done with one 'COPY' rather than needing one COPY for each page.
Could the Ancients display method be adopted for Medieval ?

I will enquire.

[rbodleyscott]

Actaully, Ancients is currently set to 100 per page. It only appears on one page because there are not yet more than 100 results.

Medieval has now been changed to be also 100 per page. (As soon as the cache updates)

[tyronec]

ELO games that are conceded on T1 are recorded as lost.
I tested this during the Beta and games that were conceded on the first few turns were not recorded. So either something has changed between Beta and Live or else there was something else in play that I didn't pick up on when I was testing it.

[rbodleyscott]

ELO games that are conceded on T1 are recorded as lost.

In Medieval as well?

[tyronec]

Yes, specifically Medieval. I checked it against the dates for my aborted games.
All of those 5 games listed were map rerolls.

It is difficult to know what to make of it all, maybe it was always intended to work this way. Would be helpful if Slitherine advised us of what the criteria are for aborted and timed out games.

Screenshot 2024-01-19 052000.png (422.59 KiB) Viewed 1995 times

Screenshot 2024-01-19 052000.png (422.59 KiB) Viewed 1995 times

[rbodleyscott]

I am in communication with Slitherine about having a buffer at the start of games where they are not scored, to allow for re-rolls in the tournaments that use those.

Unfortunately that would also mean that if one player takes one look at the map/opposition in a ranked non-tournament game and immediately concedes, he won’t be penalised at all.

Hard to reconcile these two situations. I am waiting to see what they say.

[Mairtin]

Wouldn't a simple implementation be, that if the scores are 0-0 regardless of the turn it is, then there's no change to ELO?
Also if a player ends the game using the end stalled game method, then they shouldn't receive any penalty regardless of the score. Whether they should receive an increase if they are currently winning I don't have an opinion either way.

So far, I've asked my regular opponents if they want to use ELO; one said no, but the rest have been like me and we don't really care if we use it or not, and agreed that we'll give it a try until one or the other doesn't want to any more. The few pickup games I've posted so far I've used it, but I've been noticing less games being posted with it recently, but whether that's because it's less popular or I just don't see the majority of postings because of my time zone I'm not sure.

[rbodleyscott]

Wouldn't a simple implementation be, that if the scores are 0-0 regardless of the turn it is, then there's no change to ELO?

It would be simple but would not penalise players that pick up a challenge but take one look at the enemy army and concede.

[Mairtin]

...
It would be simple but would not penalise players that pick up a challenge but take one look at the enemy army and concede.

My response to a player who conceded without explanation would more than likely be to just not play them again, but I suppose that wouldn't stop them taking a pick up game in the future.

Most of the concerns though seem to be based around player run tournaments that allow map rerolls. So maybe if the score is 0-0 on a password protected game there's no penalty. Anyone then trying to 'abuse' the system will then either be handled by the organisers in terms of the tournament, or may simply run out of opponents willing to play them.

[Mairtin]

...today I used the "End Stalled Game" button to finally finish it. Sadly after finishing it this way I have noticed, that the ranked profile tells me that I have lost the battle and I also lost 15 ELO without a reason for this...

Has there been any change to who gets the points if the game is ended with the 'End Stalled Game' method?

[rbodleyscott]

...today I used the "End Stalled Game" button to finally finish it. Sadly after finishing it this way I have noticed, that the ranked profile tells me that I have lost the battle and I also lost 15 ELO without a reason for this...

Has there been any change to who gets the points if the game is ended with the 'End Stalled Game' method?

Not yet.

[tyronec]

Could the Rankings here and in Ancients be bookmarked somewhere, maybe I have missed it but I don't see anywhere obvious where the tables are displayed.

[Karvon]

Could the Rankings here and in Ancients be bookmarked somewhere, maybe I have missed it but I don't see anywhere obvious where the tables are displayed.

I've posted links to both in respective tournament forums as I couldn't find them easily either.

Karvon