Armies of Third Crusade?

[kronenblatt]

I'm looking into the Third Crusade and the prelude to it (1187-1192 AD) and possibilities to play it as a campaign with battles in Field of Glory: Medieval, potentially (loosely) based on the Crusader Rex board game (or at least its wonderful different maps , of which one version is seen below).

This would then involve at least the three actual crusader armies arriving, the Outremer states already there, and the Ayyubids. Any other interesting and relevant factions?

Army list wise on the Christian side, I'm thinking:

• English 1155-1271 AD for Richard the Lion Heart.

• French 1155-1319 AD for Philippe II.

• German (Imperial) 1155-1199 AD for Friedrich I Barbarossa

• Crusader 1155-1291 AD for the Outremer states armies.

Would that make sense, or should all Christian armies from a historical point of view be Crusader 1155-1291 AD? I'd like to avoid that for the sake of variety.

And while we're on this about sake of variety: Are there any applicable Muslim army lists other than just Ayyubid Egyptian 1172-1250 AD?

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and ideas. Thanks!

[fogman]

The German contingent broke up after Frederick's death before its arrival. But they did fight the Seljuks of Rum extensively in Anatolia.
Another Muslim faction could be the Zengids of Mosul and northern Syria whom Saladin only partially subdued. His attempt to seize Mosul failed just before the Hattin campaign.
Within the kingdom of Jerusalem, there were the factions of Guy of Lusignan and Conrad of Montferrat, the husbands of the sisters of Baldwin the Leper King.

[Karvon]

The Syrian States list probably covers most of the Arabs on the northern end of your map, though you might adds Seljuk Turks West for a bit of variety.

Karvon

[SnuggleBunnies]

Not sure about the French and Germans, but if you are going for accuracy the English list doesn't really work. Accounts of the battle of Arsuf are quite explicit about the infantry being mixed spearmen and crossbowmen, which the Crusader list has, and the English doesn't.

[kronenblatt]

Thanks, guys!

Some aspects can be covered through the use of allies. However, the European lists don’t have any from that region so I would have to make a module in that case.

[kronenblatt]

From an overall point of view, what does the Crusader list above cover: the troops already residing there as part of the Outremer states or the ones arriving for the Crusades, or is there no actual difference?

I don’t know much about this period so just read on the Wiki and then it seems that the Christian forces at the battle of Arsuf were multi-national: English, French, and Outremer. But what if they hadn’t combined their forces?

[Paul59]

or should all Christian armies from a historical point of view be Crusader 1155-1291 AD?

Yes, I am pretty sure that the Crusader list is meant to represent all Christian armies in the Holy Land. As Snuggles stated the Third Crusade infantry should include mixed formations of Spearmen and Crossbowmen, they would also need Turcopoles. Meanwhile the English, French and Imperial lists all include units that probably shouldn't be anywhere near the Holy Land ie: Irish, Galwegians, Low Countries Spearmen etc.

As for extra armies maybe consider the Byzantine 1155-1204?

[rbodleyscott]

or should all Christian armies from a historical point of view be Crusader 1155-1291 AD?

Yes, I am pretty sure that the Crusader list is meant to represent all Christian armies in the Holy Land.

Correct

[SnuggleBunnies]

And since this is for mp I'll note that that crusader list is a very tough opponent for the various arab/turkic armies it faces.

[kronenblatt]

So the red units would be very local for Western/Central Europe? And the orange potentially too? Whereas the green unit is the one being mixed spearmen and crossbowmen referred to above?

[Karvon]

I'd venture any Raw troops would likely be pretty local as well, representing the local militias of dubious quality.

Karvon

[fogman]

I don’t know much about this period so just read on the Wiki and then it seems that the Christian forces at the battle of Arsuf were multi-national: English, French, and Outremer. But what if they hadn’t combined their forces?

This is excellent historical immersion, Itinerarium Ricardi Regis, the most detailed primary account:
https://www.yorku.ca/inpar/richard_of_holy_trinity.pdf
Arsuf starts at p. 175
Joppa/Jaffa starts at p. 268

For my own collation of various sources:
https://www.militaryhistorywithfog.com/arsuf-1191-ad

[kronenblatt]

I'd venture any Raw troops would likely be pretty local as well, representing the local militias of dubious quality.

Karvon

Good point: thanks!

[kronenblatt]

I don’t know much about this period so just read on the Wiki and then it seems that the Christian forces at the battle of Arsuf were multi-national: English, French, and Outremer. But what if they hadn’t combined their forces?

This is excellent historical immersion, Itinerarium Ricardi Regis, the most detailed primary account:
https://www.yorku.ca/inpar/richard_of_holy_trinity.pdf
Arsuf starts at p. 175
Joppa/Jaffa starts at p. 268

For my own collation of various sources:
https://www.militaryhistorywithfog.com/arsuf-1191-ad

Thanks! Now downloaded and on my eBook Reader.