Persian Elephants

[SimonLancaster]

I mentioned this in the Discord group but thought I would on the forum, too.

In my research the usual suspects such as the Indian, Carthaginian, Greek and Roman lists have access to elephants. However, even though there are some historical references (such as at Gaugamela) to the Persians using war elephants we don’t find them in the Persian lists.

Any thoughts?

[Karvon]

Reposting of a few of my related comments from Discord.

The first mention of Persian war elephants was by Arrian, a Greek historian. In his work The Anabasis of Alexander, he mentions 15 Persian war elephants as being present at the battle of Gaugamela:

The whole army of Darius was said to contain 40,000 cavalry, 1,000,000 infantry, and 200 scythe-bearing chariots. There were only a few elephants, about fifteen in number, belonging to the Indians who live this side of the Indus.

The Anabasis of Alexander/Book III/Chapter VIII

Given there is at least one reference, I suppose allowing 1 unit wouldn't be out of place though, given how many lists are based on pretty sketchy basis.

Given the geographical size of the Persian empire and the fact they regularly recruited native contingents from individual satrapies which included Indians, I could see having a token elephant.

Paul has included one in one of the Persian lists in the TT mode, so folks could use that if they wanted to simulate this.

[SnuggleBunnies]

Since we are reposting things:

Arrian is the only one to mention them correct? And their presence in the fighting itself doesn't seem to be mentioned at all. I wonder if they were there for prestige purposes, or as beasts of burden, without a place in the battle plan. So my money would be on either they weren't there, or if they were not in a combat role, and even if they were, being mentioned in one battle at the death of the empire probably wouldn't merit inclusion in an army list.

After all, the unbelievable (heh) mass of Persian infantry seemed not to take any part, and thus aren't in the Epic Battle scenario that comes with Immortal Fire. Since the elephants didn't seem to take any part either, should they be in a skirmish list? Furthermore, if I recall correctly they were mentioned as being captured in the camp - hardly indicative of them having just taken part in the battle!

[Karvon]

In chapter 11 it states:

In front of Darius's royal squadron of cavalry stood the elephants and 50 chariots.

Thus, they were clearly in the line of battle, and not merely baggage carriers. However, there is no mention of them in The narrative of the battle itself that follows. The next the next time we hear of them is after the battle, when they were captured along with the baggage and the camp.

One possibility, is they were countered by the light infantry which dealt with the scythe chariots in the center and successfully driven off. It was quite common for elephants to be rounded up after battles by the victors as they often survived the loss of their crews.

[SimonLancaster]

Paul, TT Mod creator, said this in Discord:

"Actually the TT Mod already contains a Gaugamela only Achaemenid list containing a small number of elephants (plus Guard Lancers). My source was the Field of Glory tabletop rules Immortal Fire army list book which allows a small number of these exotic units for 331 BC only. In the next update (coming soon!) I have reduced the map coordinates to the actual historical battle area, so that possible enemies are limited to the Macedonians plus a few others."

[gribol]

And these elephants in the Persian army theoretically appeared only once, at Gaugamella, or were they a permanent component of the Persian army?
Because if it was a single use, what's the point of introducing them to the permanent unit roster?

[SimonLancaster]

And these elephants in the Persian army theoretically appeared only once, at Gaugamella, or were they a permanent component of the Persian army?
Because if it was a single use, what's the point of introducing them to the permanent unit roster?

You could have them in one list as in the mod. There is mention of use in other battles but perhaps the details are hard to find.

[SnuggleBunnies]

There is mention of use in other battles but perhaps the details are hard to find.

What mention?

[SimonLancaster]

I don't know of specific examples as in battles. Ctesias, physician to Artaxerxes II, mentions war elephants in his book, Indica. He also claimed to have seen elephants being used in Babylon.

[SnuggleBunnies]

I don't know of specific examples as in battles. Ctesias, physician to Artaxerxes II, mentions war elephants in his book, Indica. He also claimed to have seen elephants being used in Babylon.

The only mention of war elephants I could find in Indica was clearly about Indian elephants, which makes sense given the subject - "When the King of the Indians goes on a campaign, one hundred thousand war-elephants go on before him, while three thousand more, that are of superior size and strength, march, I am told, behind him, these being trained to demolish the walls of the enemy. This they effect by rushing against them at the King’s signal, and throwing them down by the overwhelming force with which they press their breasts against them. Ktêsias reports this from hearsay, but adds that with his own eyes he had seen elephants tear up palm trees, roots and all, with like furious violence; and this they do whenever they are instigated to the act by their drivers."

[Karvon]

There is mention of use in other battles but perhaps the details are hard to find.

What mention?

Wikepedia states

Some[citation needed] claim that they had been used previously in the Greek campaign of King Xerxes I of Persia, and even further back at the time of Darius the Great at the Indus, the Danube and against the Scythians in 512 BC. Neither Xenophon nor Herodotus mention war elephants in their accounts of these earlier campaigns.

There is no citation provided for any of these claims. I did a little bit of digging using Google, Bing and ChatGTP and found no primary or secondary sources related to any of them.

Karvon