Heroes and unit traits redesign

[Tassadar]

Waiting for AO 1945 and looking back at my hero tier list made me think about some redesign options for a few of the less popular heroes, those that are too powerful to be reliably allows, but also some redesign of specific unit traits. I'm thus creating a quick thread to brainstorm such options. It's not to suggest new hero and traits, such topics already exist. It's just for options within the current list.

Camouflage - Putting it here, since I'm not sure if the AI got fixed or not when it comes to Camouflage. I've seen some videos recently that might suggest that AI got smarter, but sine I have not played since my last AAR in AO 1944, I'm not certain about this. I was able to mass ambush the enemy just fine back then. In general, it should not be such a cheese hero and after the first ambush, the AI should learn its lesson.

On The Roll - Should be possible to bring back to the pool if it capped at maybe +3, giving an overall nice bonus to all attack types. Going all the way to +5 would probably be too good, but +3 sounds like an efficient amount that does not break the game.

Ambusher - Perhaps it could just trigger an ambush on the first attack in a turn, meaning that it would still serve it's role. Still, it's too good for the AI, as it helps map makes design units that are tough to crack, so probably not worth messing around with, even if the player does not get it normally.

River Assault - Just add the ability from "Master of Blitzkrieg" general trait about crossing minor rivers more easily and suddenly it become a really serious hero.

Fast Retreat - Add the bonus from 50% of lost strength. Would still be bad, but at least not that unusable, as 50% is a more probable loss status then 33% and sometimes it could save a unit then.

Ferocious Defense - Add +1 base entrenchment on top of that, so it at least contributes to something useful.

Bunker Killer - Should also turn off Lethal Attack versus structures, to give all the assault guns some extra utility.

[Grondel]

Camouflage - Putting it here, since I'm not sure if the AI got fixed or not when it comes to Camouflage. I've seen some videos recently that might suggest that AI got smarter, but sine I have not played since my last AAR in AO 1944, I'm not certain about this. I was able to mass ambush the enemy just fine back then. In general, it should not be such a cheese hero and after the first ambush, the AI should learn its lesson.

camouflage and provocator still break the AI. making them work a limited amount, like 1-2 times per turn would fix this.

On The Roll - Should be possible to bring back to the pool if it capped at maybe +3, giving an overall nice bonus to all attack types. Going all the way to +5 would probably be too good, but +3 sounds like an efficient amount that does not break the game.

limiting it to a max amount is a good idea to "unbreak" it.

Ambusher - Perhaps it could just trigger an ambush on the first attack in a turn, meaning that it would still serve it's role. Still, it's too good for the AI, as it helps map makes design units that are tough to crack, so probably not worth messing around with, even if the player does not get it normally.

if given to the player it will probs just create a unit that will very rarely be attacked unless combined with provocator.

River Assault - Just add the ability from "Master of Blitzkrieg" general trait about crossing minor rivers more easily and suddenly it become a really serious hero.

i tend to use it alot, especially on bridging units, that still get the +4/+4 malus when in a river. sadly it´s pretty useless in a desert.

Fast Retreat - Add the bonus from 50% of lost strength. Would still be bad, but at least not that unusable, as 50% is a more probable loss status then 33% and sometimes it could save a unit then.

not sure if i ever got that one from a random hero.

Ferocious Defense - Add +1 base entrenchment on top of that, so it at least contributes to something useful.

it currently completely negates the prominent pioneer bonus. at least when creating scenarios it´s very helpfull. for the player only on defensive scenarios where the AI has lots of ignoring units. very situational.

Bunker Killer - Should also turn off Lethal Attack versus structures, to give all the assault guns some extra utility.

bunker killer is fine as it iss, lethal attack on the other hand should be on this list since it is part of several gamebreaking hero combos.


sers,
Thomas

[Tassadar]

Ambusher - Perhaps it could just trigger an ambush on the first attack in a turn, meaning that it would still serve it's role. Still, it's too good for the AI, as it helps map makes design units that are tough to crack, so probably not worth messing around with, even if the player does not get it normally.

if given to the player it will probs just create a unit that will very rarely be attacked unless combined with provocator.

I love the idea behind the hero, but I'm at odds when it comes to making it available for the player. The biggest concern is as you say, it would make a boring passive that prevent any attacks if the AI took the calculations into account and if it did not, it could be a better version of Provocator in some circumnstances.

Fast Retreat - Add the bonus from 50% of lost strength. Would still be bad, but at least not that unusable, as 50% is a more probable loss status then 33% and sometimes it could save a unit then.

not sure if i ever got that one from a random hero.

Yes, it's not possible to get right now. I had it added manually for general Bertorelli's run and it actually has some very niche applications, but the base point at which it becomes useful is just too low because of all the risk. Maybe it's because if it was 50%, splitting the unit could now automatically grant the bonus to the split part with the hero?

[Grondel]

Fast Retreat - Add the bonus from 50% of lost strength. Would still be bad, but at least not that unusable, as 50% is a more probable loss status then 33% and sometimes it could save a unit then.

Yes, it's not possible to get right now. I had it added manually for general Bertorelli's run and it actually has some very niche applications, but the base point at which it becomes useful is just too low because of all the risk. Maybe it's because if it was 50%, splitting the unit could now automatically grant the bonus to the split part with the hero?

i currently use it in scenarios for harasser units pretty often. u can set the strength at which they are supposed to flee to their repair spot to 33% and get a pretty annoying unit that way that keeps coming back if not dealt with.

sers,
Thomas

[DefiantXYX]

River Assault - Just add the ability from "Master of Blitzkrieg" general trait about crossing minor rivers more easily and suddenly it become a really serious hero.

I really like that change.

Fast Retreat
All italian units should have that trait tbh.

[QSertorius]

I think most of the heroes are in a pretty good spot, actually. The ones I don't like are Lightning Strike, No Retaliation, and Provocator.

I really like river assault on bridging units.

[BarbarianHunter]

+1 for giving River Assault the Master of Blitzkrieg river crossing trait.

[DefiantXYX]

When playing against the AI with heroic showdown some hereos are just annoying, especially in the early years of war.

Prudent can always be a game killer. On a fighter plan you wont be able to kill that one not matter how strong you are.

Shock tactics and envelopment (?!) are also a pain in the ass. Everything is fine and sometimes the AI just kills one of your units out of no where. Has to do with the fact, the AI will never really win the scenario, it is just trying to take out units.

[QSertorius]

When playing against the AI with heroic showdown some hereos are just annoying, especially in the early years of war.

Prudent can always be a game killer. On a fighter plan you wont be able to kill that one not matter how strong you are.

Shock tactics and envelopment (?!) are also a pain in the ass. Everything is fine and sometimes the AI just kills one of your units out of no where. Has to do with the fact, the AI will never really win the scenario, it is just trying to take out units.

I used heroic showdown for the SCW campaign, but I turned it off after that. It was really annoying and would often match up heroes that made no sense. I prefer the logically-assigned heroes on the special AI units. I really wish I could assign heroes to units with the scenario editor, rather than having to use LUA scripts. It would make scenario design/redesign so much easier. For example, I'd love to be able to quickly assign camouflage to a few select AI antitank guns.

For the Prudent fighter planes, I shot them down with my AAA units. Until I got the BF-109s, I don't think I killed more than 20 points of enemy aircraft with my Fighter planes in all the SCW missions. It was very frustrating basically using my fighters as weak guards for my ground attack aircraft, and just hoping they never got attacked. But, all part of the game. It makes sense in that era.