Old Bootcamp Battle feels outdated

[pupski]

The scoring of the standard bootcamp match is a bit sad. I just lost all flags. 50 turns to play but not enough income to make that work with a normal unit choice. It's probably the oldest mp scenario (?) but it feels very much out of tune with all the other scenarios. Maybe it is what it is but it gives the feeling that there is anything broken. As a new player (not me) it would not encourage me to try other mp scenarios. I would suggest updating it to modern standard(s). The newer version with the British works very well. Just my 2 cents.
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Sad score

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[pupski]

Oh, my point, it scores like any ranked game right. I lost 14 points in the ranking after loosing and that feels wrong when the scenario quality is so out of tune or out of date. I was beaten very well, no problem there

[Shards]

It feels old and outdated because it is

It's why I made the other version!

If we were to tweak it, what would you recommend changing?

[pupski]

Giving the player that is losing a boost in money for each flag lost would be fun. When their superiors see they are losing they will provide them with more income. But a bit more income per turn would be good. Coloured flagpoles, silver and or gold would look nice. Having only 1 last flag at the base would be more logical, if the opponent is that close there is no clear need for two flag locations, at least, with the balance of income now. A CP point more for navy would feel logical. Maximum of 25 / 30 turns. Making a faster win a mayor victory and a slower a minor. Maybe a warning in the dialogue about the low income if it is not upped. It feels like the terrain could have just a tiny bit more variation although it is a nice challenge with enough open space, only not with such a low income. Alright , I have no clue

[Netballman]

I played this with Pupski and in both instances the Japanese won - although I did do it slightly more quickly than he did But I have to disagree with him! Personally I like this version and I think it poses different kinds of problems from the usual. No, you can't just "buy what you like" for a classically balanced force, or be profligate with unit casualties because of the very limited rp - well sounds like real life to me! You have to husband your resources and be very careful about risk management. A slight tweaking of initial rp upwards (and I do mean slight) plus the provision of one more naval cp might make things yet more interesting, but overall I wish more scenarios were as tight on resource as this one.

[pupski]

Yes, good points, it was pretty exciting at the start, a good fight. But the end game is too long, you have to struggle a bit but who wins is clear at a certain point. Is there a way to end the game after a number of units are defeated and not replaced? When the open CP is 12 or 16 for example?

[bebro]

Hi guys, interesting debate. I did a bit work on that meanwhile:

- changed start RP 1000 > 1200, turn income RP 20 > 25
- changed naval CP 5 > 6
- added another primary objective "take enemy ports" (the main supply bases at the coast) which gives you an instant victory
- added another secondary objective "destroy fortress" for few extra RP (dunno if I keep it tho)
- reduced no. of turns to 30 for now
- cosmetic changes, for example added gold flags instead of normal, plus markers in objective overview popup

Feedback welcome. From what I understand one of the problems is that the battle does take too long.

The new instant victory option may counter that to someextent, but there's also a chance that you get "Draw" outcomes if noone gets that instant win, or noone does not get all flags ("long" win).

We have no way to check for CP left. But we could declare a winner however when one side gets X kills first or does X strength damage overall, if you like that. Do you have a rough idea how many unit kills the winner had in your runs?

[pupski]

Nice to hear this, sounds good. On the questions of unit kills I have an approximate answer. In my last game I killed all my opponent's units, maybe minus one. With the cashflow going on I think he was able to buy maximum two extra units after the start of the game. In my game I could buy 1 or 2 extra units before running out of cash.

I think the little extra income can make a good difference, just enough to safe up 2 turns and get something fixed or bought.

I used the "infantry on a mountain is indestructible" rule to sap the fighting power and efficiency out of my opponent's units without losing to much strengt myself and still blocking his way and supporting other units. It is very hard to get infantry of a mountain.

I will try the new version asap, have to see if it is there yet or if it will show up shortly.

Thanks for the good work!

[Netballman]

Yep echo pupski's comments. Will be nice to try the tweaked version. My buys were only at the very end when I was trading time for ground but they were not that much help. I'm not so much concerned about the turn time as total wins are most likely the outcome: but perhaps this is one game where afaster victory is well worth more points?

[pupski]

The new version v2 is out in the another thread, just got corrected because there was a small turn number issue (3 instead of 30).

[Netballman]

I've loaded the new version of the scenario and can play it hotseat against myself but I can't accept Erik2's challenge as it says it's not installed? Anything to do with my being on steam perhaps?

[Shards]

Do you definitely both have the same version?

[Erik2]

I scratched the old challenge, downloaded the updated Bootcamp from https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=112175 (again) and created a new challenge.

[pupski]

One remark concerning the new old new Bootcamp V2 with 3 turns. One paired game ended in a Draw but this one I won with a Major Victory. I only had the 4 starting flags. I did manage a kill or a kill more than my opponent but that is not a win condition in the description. So I should never have gotten a Major Victory, right?
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[Netballman]

I scratched the old challenge, downloaded the updated Bootcamp from https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=112175 (again) and created a new challenge.

Don;t see it at all now (of course someone else may have taken it up?)

[Erik2]

Yes, Brenmusik picked it up. You can always create a new challenge