Paratroopers & retrograde

[Korvessa]

Just getting ready to start the 1939 DLC campaign & wondering if I should chose retrograde.
I am trying my best to use only captured equipment. so delaying things isn't really a big deal.
Except for paratroops.
I think some scenarios in 39-40 are unwinnable without paratroops.
When do they show up?
If I use it in 1939, but not in 1940, would that still work?

[adiekmann]

Just getting ready to start the 1939 DLC campaign & wondering if I should chose retrograde.
I am trying my best to use only captured equipment. so delaying things isn't really a big deal.
Except for paratroops.
I think some scenarios in 39-40 are unwinnable without paratroops.
When do they show up?
If I use it in 1939, but not in 1940, would that still work?

Not in AO39, but you will need them in '40 starting with the very first scenario. However, with retrograde I don't think you'll have them available to you with a glitch in the traits that carry over to the first scenario of the next campaign (if you are importing a core). You could still take all secondary objectives, but you won't be able to get all the bonus. You'd need to decide how important that is for you.

[Korvessa]

It looks like Paras show up in 1939 Denmark, so if I skip retrograde in 1939 I can use it in 1940 and be OK.

[VirgilInTheSKY]

It looks like Paras show up in 1939 Denmark, so if I skip retrograde in 1939 I can use it in 1940 and be OK.

Yes because AO39 actually already have 3 scenarios with its time moved into 1940. So if you don't take retrograde in 1939, you will also be able to recruit/upgrade to paras at that time. But 1940 IS a year a lot of new equipment arrives to bring back some balance between your enemies' power and yours, so I don't think it is a good idea to pick it in 1940 either.

[Panzer73]

Not in AO39, but you will need them in '40 starting with the very first scenario. However, with retrograde I don't think you'll have them available to you with a glitch in the traits that carry over to the first scenario of the next campaign (if you are importing a core). You could still take all secondary objectives, but you won't be able to get all the bonus. You'd need to decide how important that is for you.

Actually, you can complete all primary and bonus objectives with having used retrograde in 1939. Don't forget that there are 5 auxiliary paratroop units up north. You can fly your own infantry to the northern airports, then fly a couple of the FJ south to capture the fortress hex on the island.

1939 is a good year for the retrograde trait. I have done so without any problems.

[DefiantXYX]

Actually, you can complete all primary and bonus objectives with having used retrograde in 1939. Don't forget that there are 5 auxiliary paratroop units up north. You can fly your own infantry to the northern airports, then fly a couple of the FJ south to capture the fortress hex on the island.

But you cant save the blucher. This mission is one of my favorite because of the fact you can do something ahistrical, that has a small effect since the blucher will come back in sealion. I wish to have some more of these small events.

@1939 with retrograde.
Do you still start with the BF 109E? Afair you only got the BF109B at the end of SCW.

[Panzer73]

The Blucher survived in all of my runs. The problem is that the Ju87B doesn't have sufficient range, just 11 when 12 is needed. My standard approach is:
-> Use the Blucher to suppress the AA gun
-> Bomb the AA gun with a strategic bomber for further reduction (even better if there is a Lethal Attack hero)
-> Use the Il-2 with Double Attack hero to bomb the fortress. In one run where I refused to use non-German equipment, I used a Bf110 for the same purpose - took a little longer.

In my last run, I was using the Poor Maintenance trait and the Il-2 broke down two turns in a row (failing to attack in one and reduced range in the second). I still managed to save the Blucher, with only 1 point left...

[adiekmann]

Not in AO39, but you will need them in '40 starting with the very first scenario. However, with retrograde I don't think you'll have them available to you with a glitch in the traits that carry over to the first scenario of the next campaign (if you are importing a core). You could still take all secondary objectives, but you won't be able to get all the bonus. You'd need to decide how important that is for you.

Actually, you can complete all primary and bonus objectives with having used retrograde in 1939. Don't forget that there are 5 auxiliary paratroop units up north. You can fly your own infantry to the northern airports, then fly a couple of the FJ south to capture the fortress hex on the island.

1939 is a good year for the retrograde trait. I have done so without any problems.

Yeah, I could have stated that better but that's what I meant. It's not a problem in '39, but it will be in '40.

[Korvessa]

As mentioned, I am kind of playing "kleptokreig" at least as far as vehicles are concerned.
As a result, I think it won't hurt me too bad, once I get my paras.
Otherwise, just playing around with using captured equipment
I have already played all the campaigns I have (SCW - 1941) - so just having fun experimenting.

But this is a problem with things like air power that you don't capture much of.
So I figure I can at least use Bf109 from 1939 until I get gifted stuff

[DefiantXYX]

-> Use the Il-2 with Double Attack hero to bomb the fortress. In one run where I refused to use non-German equipment, I used a Bf110 for the same purpose - took a little longer.

On what difficulty do you play? I dont think a BF 110 can do more than 2-3 damage on the fortress, even with the right hero combination. I always needed a strong paratrooper to kill it in time and save the blucher.

[Panzer73]

General difficulty. The low damage is the reason for using a double attack hero, the early bombers aren't very good at damaging the fort. Even the Il-2 does at best 3 points of damage (on a very luck roll).

The fort can do between 1 and 3 damage to the Blucher. So bad luck can sink the Blucher even with paratroops. I have played 6 cores so far. I used paratroopers to attack the island for 3 of those playthroughs. It does make it easier.

[adiekmann]

I play GM and for a while now with David vs. Goliath (+5 str to every AI unit). There are certain scenarios where challenges like this make it very difficult and sometimes impossible to achieve some of the objectives or bonuses (e.g. like saving young Manstein in AO42).

By this map I usually have at least 1 Double Attack and Lethal Attack hero. I put them on a strategic bomber and use that to smash the fort. I only use 1 paratrooper to take the island, but not until the fort is nearly destroyed. Otherwise he is surrounded with no supplies and become impotent. Like a lot of things in this game, timing is important. Do something too soon and it ends in disaster. Too late and you fail. Drop your Fallschirmjäger next to the fort just before it is ready to fall. He'll have some strength left to finish the fort off on the next turn and take the supply hex immediately thereafter. I also usually use a Bf 110 with appropriate heroes to help take out the fort and AA gun on the island. Do not fire on the fort with the Blücher, but use it on the AA instead.

Oh, and in case you're wondering, I usually have experienced Ju 88A and Bf 1110 aircraft who have their origins in SCW. And lastly, yes, all of these units are fully OS. Final note, the additional advantage of using Bf110s is their range. These aircraft can rebase from the original deployment airfields whereas your 109s and Stukas cannot. They require the capture of another airfield to be able to rebase and support your forces in the top of the map.