Artillery effects on keils?

[Ray552]

How effective was artillery against keils (both Swiss and Landsknecht) in the late 1400s?

In the game, artillery doesn't seem to have as much effect in terms of casualties or disruption as one would expect from shooting at these large formations of densely packed pikemen and halberdiers.

Of course, the relatively lower frequency of disruptions may be due to the quality of the troops ("Superior" for the Swiss and "Above Average" for Landsknechts.)

Also, was the rate of fire and accuracy of late 1400s artillery much worse than the artillery of the early 1500s?

When you read accounts of Swiss pikemen being mown down by artillery (and arquebuses) at Marignano (1515) and Biccoca (1522), are those due to the improvements in gunnery?

Are the casualty probability ranges for artillery (for example, "0-30") still skewed towards the lower end of the curve, as they were in FOG2 Ancients?

[SnuggleBunnies]

It is skewed low, but they get a bonus for targeting large unit. So at standard scale it's 0-66, and artillery inflicts the -1 to missile cohesion test regardless of casualties inflicted.

Also if I recall correctly 8% casualties need to be inflicted for a cohesion check. At standard scale, the size of a unit for those purposes tops out at 720 (9bases), so you do need to inflict somewhat more casualties on pike units to trigger the missile cohesion check.

Can't speak to 15th vs 16th century, I would assume there were advances, but I will note that at Biccoca there was also massed arquebus fire, and, you know, gigantic field fortifications, and melee infantry in reserve.

[Athos1660]

I for one tend to think that Artillery shooting of the second half of the 15th century (from Castillon to Marignano) is actually too weak against Keils and more generally any infantry (likewise in P&S for the following periods).

[Ray552]

Thanks for the responses - looks like the answer is just to shoot more

I've never played "Pike and Shot" - looks very interesting, I think I may get it.

So the artillery in that game is not as effective as one would anticipate?

[SnuggleBunnies]

Thanks for the responses - looks like the answer is just to shoot more :-)

I've never played "Pike and Shot" - looks very interesting, I think I may get it.

So the artillery in that game is not as effective as one would anticipate?

It's very effective when combined with other missile fire, and cavalry in particular is vulnerable to artillery alone. Their fire isn't more effective in Pike and Shot, but they have much longer range and all units have unlimited ammo