AO43 both campaigns finished - some feedback (and questions)

[Bee1976]

Well the most important point at first:

great job!

It was a funny journey.
During the ahistorical campaign i felt a little rushed, The historical path was slower but in my opinion more difficult. I played with an imported core on Generalissimus without special challenges, and yes hm it was tough

pros:
- that awesome japanese tanker!
- hard battles, a lot of tank action
- the splitup between historic/ahistoric
- Azul Infantry 43 (!!)
- Astrakhan was great! (AfrikaKorps vibes inc!)
- Evil little surprises and that DeGaulle 2.0 Tanker without traits.....hehe

Cons:
- due to the splitup it felt a little short, i think with 3 more missions per path i would have felt better
- its lagging again after some playtime
- that air only mission on the historic path (its ok you can skip it) - TamanPen
- Coreslots seems a little low, without an importet core and more Zero-/ReducedSlot Heros this might be a little too hard
- Steam ACMs for finishing AO43 seems to miss

All in all a real fun DLC for me

But a big wish for AO44 or as a general update:
Some love for the Hero-System and the interface, like the possibility to "group" them, or a system where you can sort them by urself via stars or categorize them for faster assingment. Its hard to find the heros you look for in the interface.
- i would enjoy some new hero-traits and generall traits
- isnt it time for the capitana to wear her uniform again ?

Biggest question, how does the game "remember" what path i had chosen ?
Right now i finished both campaigns with the same imported core. And both campaign end on complete diffrent locations on the map.


but again great job

[VirgilInTheSKY]

About "how game remember your path": if something have to be carried over from one DLC to another, a script will put a special "token" in the form of a Captured or Prototype equipment stock. They are equipment not available for player at that time, so by searching for the exact number and type in later DLC scenario, game will "know" that you have done something in the past if it can find that token.
For example: In AO 40, you get 1 Captured Meteor Mk.III by capturing the aero dome near London during Sealion sideline, then in AO 41 training scenario game search for "1 Captured Meteor Mk.III", and give you the event about Mr. Messerschmitt talking about the documents you found in London. If you agree to exchange, game remove this token and place 5 Prototype Me 262 instead. And at last, in AO 43 Kummersdorf training scenario game search for this token again and give you the event about getting a Me 262 unit together with Hartmann, then remove the token.

[Tassadar]

- its lagging again after some playtime

I just started this DLC, but noticed this happening as well.

But a big wish for AO44 or as a general update:
Some love for the Hero-System and the interface, like the possibility to "group" them, or a system where you can sort them by urself via stars or categorize them for faster assingment. Its hard to find the heros you look for in the interface.

I think Edmon hinted in one of his videos that there will be some change to the system at one point (correct me if I'm wrong). I also thought it will be synced with the 1943 DLC, but might be introduced later after all, in a patch or Pacific Corps perhaps?

[Kerensky]

- isnt it time for the capitana to wear her uniform again ?

Depending which ending you had, she may already be in a different uniform.

[Bee1976]

- isnt it time for the capitana to wear her uniform again ?

Depending which ending you had, she may already be in a different uniform.

OMG, there are 2 diffrent endings from the capitana ?
I read all the story and of course the end "debriefing" on the first path. On the second path i was assuming that the end would be the same and havent read it...

oh well the good news: time for a replay

[Agrastas]

Can we expect Panther F for AO1944 or better long range tactical bombers like ME-410B?

[DefiantXYX]

I just finished the ahistorical part and I have to say the dlc is good. Not great, but good, and I will buy the next dlc without even thinking about it.

To be honest the maps feel repetitive. The kursk siege maps are nice, but after that its always going from left to right or bottom to top, kill a lot of tanks and stuff and do the same again and again. Comparied to dlc 1942 its getting boring with the time, I could really enjoy some speciell misisons, like the one with the ships in 1942, or saving von mansteins son.

The story behind the fighting feels a little bit superficial, since the dlc campaings were getting more that just the fighting I expected something more.
Very nice you did not forget th Leutnant who stayed back in stalingrad and the last letter from Capitana was very exciting.

My main problem is the balancing did not work with. I imported my core with ~80.000 prestige and 4-5 zero core slot heroes. 4-5 more tanks with overstrength and double attack and so on does not really work. I enabled david vs goliath + the one that makes the enemy stronger on every turn but it still was too easy.
If you guys want it hard, dont take industrial connections. I got a lot of panther A/G, even a tiger II and jagdtiger later. These units are just overpowered, you should not have them that early.
I also like the chance to get an ME262 but this jet + 2-3 heroes is also just overpowered.
This dlc might feel completly different if I would put 10-15 heroes off duty...

Well, now I gonna check out the historical part of the campaign

[Bee1976]

Well, now I gonna check out the historical part of the campaign

Well, if you liked the letter from the capitana, you should read it completly on the histrocial end. I didnt do that after my first playthrough because it starts like the letter from the ahistorical campaign, but then they differ
I found that out after a friendly hint from Kerensky in my second playthrough. Any yes its well done with those letters.

If you enjoyed AO42 i think you will like the historical path, 1 special mission and it felt harder for me and my core units on the historical path.

[RandomAttack]

Before I start Operation Roland how do I know if I have the SMG token from AO 1942? I certainly don't remember from a year ago. Hoping there is some file or something I can look in?

[Grondel]

Before I start Operation Roland how do I know if I have the SMG token from AO 1942? I certainly don't remember from a year ago. Hoping there is some file or something I can look in?

open the shop, look at the infantry tab under captured/prototype should be 1 SMG unit. in the first mission of the DLC u got several notes if that SMG token was with u.

sers,
Thomas

[DefiantXYX]

Well, if you liked the letter from the capitana, you should read it completly on the histrocial end. I didnt do that after my first playthrough because it starts like the letter from the ahistorical campaign, but then they differ
I found that out after a friendly hint from Kerensky in my second playthrough. Any yes its well done with those letters.

Thx for advise

If you enjoyed AO42 i think you will like the historical path, 1 special mission and it felt harder for me and my core units on the historical path.

Indeed its definitely harder, especially on the first playthrough, when you dont know whats coming.
If I have to criticise one more thing it is the german allies. Especially in panther-line you got hundreds of german units but they all suck, especially when you play david vs. goliath. It always feels like you are the only general who is able to win a fight, the rest of the german army is just cannon fodder.


Anyone knows what happens if you recycle the tokens? I dont like to have crap in my stock, so I keep removing stuff like Italian units

[VirgilInTheSKY]

Anyone knows what happens if you recycle the tokens? I dont like to have crap in my stock, so I keep removing stuff like Italian units

If game can't find the token, it assumes that you didn't finish that special objective or whatever. That's all. Removing that SMG, for example, will make game thinking you didn't play Operation Blut to save the 6th Army, and thus make all checks for the SMG token fail: dialogue about 6th Army in the first scenario and the returned 6th Army in Operation Roland.

One interesting thing here, which might indicates what's coming in AO 44, is that in AO 43 ahistorical route there is no special token added, like AO 42 did by adding the SMG when you win Operation Blut. So technically there is no way for game to tell which route have you went during AO 43, when AO 44 came. There is nothing special between ahistorical route and historical route here, so I guess they are doing two completely separated AO 44 now.

[RandomAttack]

Before I start Operation Roland how do I know if I have the SMG token from AO 1942? I certainly don't remember from a year ago. Hoping there is some file or something I can look in?

open the shop, look at the infantry tab under captured/prototype should be 1 SMG unit. in the first mission of the DLC u got several notes if that SMG token was with u.

sers,
Thomas

Thank you!

[DefiantXYX]

Just finished the historical part and it felt much better and even a bit harder, what is always good. Capturing kiew in the last scenario cost me a lot of good men

I also like the story behind the game, cruel but realistic. Sadly we wont see Capitana as one of our heroes.

[nexusno2000]

AO 1943 felt rather short didn't it?

[Bee1976]

Just finished the historical part and it felt much better and even a bit harder, what is always good.

Well the difficulty problem comes from an imported core. Im pretty sure iy you start a fresh core in 43 without that mass medals, heros and only with the premade stuff, ao43 will be really challenging. I wont try that out, because i like the game so much because ican build a nice and prepared core.
Im unsure how to solve it, maybe in the future the AI should get more stuff, depending on the core army the player is using and based on the difficulty level.
For example:
The player starts with a fresh core in 43, no changes to the missions.
the player starts with an imported core from 1941, the ai gets a meaningful bonus in material. if the player start with an imported core form scw, the ai gets a real buig and significant bonus for each mission.
Ofc the player can add houserules and traits/challenges to increase the difficulty, but as i mentioned in another thread i would love more options and/or an automatic system, so that generalissimus feels the same considering difficulty no matter if you play scw or AO43.

But i tryout something, my actual playthrough is in scw with david vs goliath. If im able to reach AO39 i will add Uphill battle. When i reach AO40 i will ad the next hard challenge or neg trait and so on.

AO 1943 felt rather short didn't it?

If you play 1 campaign, yes.
I played ahistorical and then the historical path from my op Roland splitup savegame and it felt better.
But ofc in later playthroughs i wont play both campaigns and no matter which one i will chose, it will feel a little short.

Thats the issue with a full splitup in 1 dlc. I really hope they will sperate the routes in ao 44 historical and 44 ahistorical or create 1 monster ao 44 dlc with a higher cost.

[Kerensky]

Well the difficulty problem comes from an imported core. Im pretty sure iy you start a fresh core in 43 without that mass medals, heros and only with the premade stuff, ao43 will be really challenging. I wont try that out, because i like the game so much because ican build a nice and prepared core.
Im unsure how to solve it, maybe in the future the AI should get more stuff, depending on the core army the player is using and based on the difficulty level.
For example:
The player starts with a fresh core in 43, no changes to the missions.
the player starts with an imported core from 1941, the ai gets a meaningful bonus in material. if the player start with an imported core form scw, the ai gets a real buig and significant bonus for each mission.
Ofc the player can add houserules and traits/challenges to increase the difficulty, but as i mentioned in another thread i would love more options and/or an automatic system, so that generalissimus feels the same considering difficulty no matter if you play scw or AO43.

But i tryout something, my actual playthrough is in scw with david vs goliath. If im able to reach AO39 i will add Uphill battle. When i reach AO40 i will ad the next hard challenge or neg trait and so on.

While that sounds nice in theory, in practice all that does is create punishment for players who import by throwing more difficulty at them and only them.

As the product pages suggest, extreme difficulty customization is up to each individual player to engage, or not engage, with.

While imported forces can seek additional growth and challenges through increased difficulty settings and advanced game modes, the preset force contains a moderate amount of experienced units and an assortment of heroes enough to allow any player to succeed in this new campaign.

For every post I see saying the content is too easy, I can find you one stating the content is too hard. We have to try and aim that difficulty right in the middle, and let the extensive options available in Panzer Corps 2 to let players find the right experience or right challenge.

In the same way that playing on Major difficulty, with extra player traits and more bonuses turned on, and also picking only the best player traits is too easy to being unplayable for me, turning on Generalissimus, stacking on a heap of extra campaign penalties like Uphill Battle, and then also picking every single negative player trait is also equally unplayable to me.

[Bee1976]

While that sounds nice in theory, in practice all that does is create punishment for players who import by throwing more difficulty at them and only them.

I know what you mean, and im sorry. My english is kinda limited, but i will try my best.
Im NOT not punishment. But But i can turn your point around. Right now player with a fresh core gets punished, because they have a way harder experience than a player who imports from SCW.

My point is, the game gets easier due to DLC design. ( the prestige burning allies in SCW, nemesis in AO40) and if you import your core. But not importing my core would remove a lot of fun and replayability for me. As mentioned im pretty sure there is no way to balance the missions that player with a fresh core in 43 has the same difficulty experience like someone who imported.
But maybe there is a way outside of neg traits and challenges to bring both experiences closer to each other via automatic stuff happening

That was my idea.


But as mentioned im not for punishment. What about making my idea optional like limited stock or other challenges and neg traits ?
That might add some new ways to make it harder. I know there is a lot of stuff to choose from, but some of those challenges are simply broken in some missions or the complete DLC. Uphill battle, Berserk Rage and David vs Goliath sound nice in theory...but uhm....hehe...
I would really appreciate some more options to alter the difficulty.

None of my words are meant offending or demanding, Those were just ideas and i really like the communication with edmon, pat and you.

[DefiantXYX]

While that sounds nice in theory, in practice all that does is create punishment for players who import by throwing more difficulty at them and only them.

I also think that is not gonna work. An imported core can be ridiculously overpowered or very well balanced, so you cant make a dlc much harder just because a player is importing his core.
Like I said in several topics in my opinion its all about heroes. I like to pick the trait killer team in the early dlcs. Once I got just trash, once I got 2x zero slots + double fire. That extreme, but it can happen. Just buy picking one trait it will completly change the whole game experience from SCW to 1943.

I dont think the game will be smart enough to "scan" your core and adjust the difficulty. So my only thought is to remove some heroes out of the game and make traits like zero slot just available for super heroes.

That could be an option like david vs goliath, a mode when you cant get the overpowered heroes. Every player is free to choose this option, so no problem if you dont like that because you enjoy playing with overpowered hero combinations.
I know there is a trait when you can just use one heroes, but that feels strange, if you have to let your guys in the stock

[Kerensky]

One of the pillars of Panzer Corps 2 is the freedom of choice it provides, because it is a singleplayer campaign environment.

Obviously we care about balance. If we didn't, it's very easy to just stamp 99999 prestige into every scenario for the player and for the AI to have to spend. But we aren't going to be draconian about it.

Who does it really benefit if we FORCE players to have a historical army? You are mandated X infantry, Y armor, Z artillery. So good luck fielding the Tigers you want, you'll probably be given a 5 strength lone Tiger tank and that's all you get.

Trying to balance heroes with penalties, well look no further than the much maligned Panzer General 3D Assault and see how that went. In that game, putting heroes in units inflated the slot count. Meant as a clear attempt to balance hero power, but the end result just felt really bad to actually play. Instead of your army increasing in power with heroes, it got smaller and smaller and smaller.

Some players like to steamroll the campaigns with massively overpowered forces. Some players even go further and use cheats to become even more powerful. Nothing wrong with that, they're having their own fun. Maybe they don't want to min/max a video game, they just want to chill out and see TIGER GO SMASH, after a long day of work.

But if someone thinks their imported hero arsenal is too strong, I think that is only a problem you can solve for yourself. The game intentionally provides a bounty of heroes, 1 per scenario, plus multi-ability special heroes on top.

Who are we to say when the game needs to start cutting off players after they reach a certain number of heroes? What if 1 player has 100 terrible heroes and wants to keep fishing for more, while another player has 10 perfect synergy heroes and getting even more is completely irrelevant to their extreme power inflation?

That's not something I want to try to control, I want players to have total freedom in that regard. So you CAN get a save chain of incredibly broken super heroes, if you want it. Or you can replay DLC to reroll this set of heroes and see how it feels to get something less broken OP. I've done it, it's very cool. I had two active CORES running in parallel. One has like 0 Zero Slot heroes, and the other only has a single Zero Slot hero. It makes a big impact on the units I field, which is its own refresher on how to play the content.

As soon as we mandate things... all that freedom and replayability is gone. Everyone will have 1 of each hero type, and then the game will 'turn off' your ability to get more. Because that's 'balanced'. Everyone mandated to the same heroes sounds extremely not fun and very uninteresting though, so I don't support it.

So the freedom to make your own force stronger, and weaker, is up to each player to make in this regard.

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